at this point we should be made aware of the names of the humans causing this human suffering. name those who are ‘just following orders’ so they can be charged at a later date when the deaths happen.
Screw that? Forcibly remove the dictator. It won’t stop. Naming and shaming does nothing when there’s no rules.
Luigi
A wonderful character from a beloved video game franchise who has no relevance to this present conversation that is taking place in a public forum
Failing to name these people and keep track of who carried out the dictator’s orders will make it more difficult to hold them legally accountable once the dictator is removed and we have rules again. It’s far from sufficient, but it is necessary.
When Musk is reposting comments saying Hitler didn’t kill the people, the public servants did, every ICE member should know their head may be responsible for these actions. The people knowing their names and reminding them of it might actually get them to stop and think about their actions
Been asking that since they started removing people from their offices. Why are media outlets not getting the names of every single agent “just doing their job” they’re just complacently watching like it’s a fucking TV drama.
Hitler found a bullet. His orderlies found the gallows.
The “just following orders” stage
If I were to carry out this order, I would refuse. Who cares whether she’s “legal” or not - deporting a sick child is simply inhumane. Those goddam monsters!
But yes, that’s quite right. The reign of terror in Hitler’s Third Reich was also only possible with those who carried out orders and clung to the idea that they were not responsible. Hannah Arendt described all this very well in “The Banality of Evil”.
Though I suspect a large proportion of those in ice are doing it because they like the cruelty, the ones that are doing for the paycheque fall into the category you mentioned.
Yes, there are certainly many who are just inherently evil, but I don’t think that’s the majority. I think most of them are like Eichmann: objectively speaking, of course, they are also evil, but they don’t get satisfaction from their cruelty. They simply don’t question what they’re told because it’s their job - and that’s enough of an excuse for them towards others and also towards themselves. Doesn’t make them any less guilty, though, I would say.
Because you would refuse you would not be the one asked to do this order. You have a functioning conscience, which makes you unqualified for such a position.
Well, I’m from Germany. Fortunately, our terrible history is still taught in every school here - in pretty much all its horrible detail.
That’s why it’s important to me to warn US citizens before it’s too late. I’m not so sure I would be courageous enough to stand up against such atrocities if I had to face deportation to an extermination camp, as I would have in Hitler’s time - please don’t do as the Germans did and fight back while you still can.
I mean there’s a world of difference between posting something somewhat critical on social media and actually having to fear consequences for life and limb. This is only for the really brave. I’m not so sure I’d be one of them if it really came down to it.
Don’t let it get that far in the first place!
Reading this now, and it strikes me as all the things I should have been taught about the Nazis beyond just the enormity of their cruelty:
Most important of all, how often just a little pushback stopped them stupid.
A student strike in German-occupied Belgium was enough pushback to stop the enforcement of the extradition of Jewish people there.
Italy, an ally at the beginning, would just say they would extradite their Jewish population, then not actually do it, in a loop, leaving the Germans frustrated simply by being lied to to their face and incapable of making progress.
You’re left with a picture of a bunch of bureaucrats following orders who are incapable of comprehending disobedience nor knowing how to handle it.
I’m curious how deporting a legal citizen even works. Is there an exception for minors?
From the article, the family was driving from Rio Grande (in Texas) to Houston (also Texas) for her treatment, going through an immigration checkpoint, as they have done in the past but this time the entire family was detained and deported on the spot.
Generally people with family who have citizenship and noncriminals are all exceptions, they used to be called undocumented instead of illegals because even undocumented workers pay taxes in the USA. Not anymore, now anybody and everybody is at risk of deportation. They’re even discussing removal of citizenship from whoever they like, as they attempted in Trump’s last term.
It is worth noting that because of this policy the ICE is actually less effective at catching actual criminals.
They’re called “undocumented” because it is not a criminal offense to enter the country, but a civil one. Some also use “unauthorized” which is probably a little more accurate.
People asking if this is legal are missing the point. This is wrong, what is legal is whatever the executive decides, ICE can only be solved with constitunially supported extra judicial action.
Going a little bit tangent, legal philosophy always fascinates me. My particular interest is international law and its paradox. It is by intention the terms “agreement”, “accords” and “treaty” do not mean the same thing, and their level of legality and enforcement varies.
