Even so, the guy said he told everyone he was a citizen. If someone asks me if I’m here on a visa and I respond “no” and then they arrest me and I’m like “I’m a citizen” you can’t then act like they were using trick questions for plausible deniability. The second I say I’m a citizen that goes out the window regardless of what I was asked. If the guy answered every question with “I’m a citizen and (answer)” I don’t think the result would be any different, so allowing them to hide behind “trick questions” obscures the fact that they are lying to get POC rounded up. They are lying and they don’t need “trick questions” because they don’t care what your answer is. You could answer the trick question “correctly” and still be rounded up. Anything suggesting that the fault lies in anything but the institution and its officers is a distraction imho. So I feel like “trick question” is a deflection/distraction and I have not read anything to even suggest that’s the case. It seems like they 1) didn’t believe him and 2) lied to cover it up. I have not read anything that suggests the citizen in question answered a question that may have been suspicious but I have read that he was not believed.

1. based on the articles about this, that’s probably not what happened and they just flat out lied, just like they did in the other recent case of detained US citizen
2. even if they DID ask that and he for whatever reason answered “no” and refused to elaborate and never bothered to mention that he was a US citizen (hint: not what happened - he said he was a citizen every step of the way), that is still not “admitting to being here illegally” and portraying it as such is a deliberate misrepresentation

Fascist don’t need your help, especially if you just have conjecture on your side.

Yeah, I’m aware that plenty of people did not vote. Unfortunately, if you don’t vote you’re not participating in the democracy part of an actual democracy. I regularly make excuses for people who are otherwise politically active, and just didn’t vote in this election, but that doesn’t change the fact that that this outcome is the outcome of an at the time “functioning democracy.”

Polls (on US adults not just on voters) had been putting his approval/disapproval within 2 points of each other, his approval being higher than disapproval on multiple days and within margin of error on others. His approval rating is higher overall this term than last term. He has a steady lead in approval on immigration. He’s certainly not our most popular president, but both approval and disapproval are generally in the 40s. Hard to act like there is an overwhelming majority of people who dislike his policies. It’s kind of damning in itself that the tariffs are the thing most affecting his rating and it’s still in the 40s. I don’t think this is some big turning point.

They do work, the other branches are just fully captured. He was impeached twice. If congress did their jobs he wouldn’t have finished his first term, much less had a second term. He was taken to court and the Supreme Court said he was basically untouchable. Democrats refused to take any action against him, presumably out of fear they’d be seen as reactionary (LOL) and hoping to sway some moderates that would be dissuaded be that. The issue is the people in these branches, many of them with constituents who supported their inaction. If everyone in the other branches was replaced today with people who cared about democracy, things would be very different. Unfortunately, half of all voters legitimately want this and have been supporting people who promised to make it happen. America is a democracy and this is what the people want apparently. Trump just matched his highest ever approval rating. Democracy working as intended.

I guess my main issue is that there are plenty of civilians who are making a stand who have not sworn any such oath.

I don’t mean this as a personal attack, but “I was young then - I have a family now” doesn’t really mean much to me, seeing as that applies to plenty of other people who are doing something. The alternative is not “get fired today”. I know government employees who were unceremoniously let go and offered nothing. This is not the choice these people were facing. My opinion of these people means nothing, and certainly means even less than nothing when compared to keeping their family safe, but this is not an SS officer demanding to know where you’re hiding the undesirables or they’ll kill your family. This is the party asking if you’ll kindly step aside so that they can install a nazi in your place. Admittedly, I don’t have a lot of faith in the ethics and morals of vets anyway. Veteran status is the second best single predictor of candidate choice (next to education), to my knowledge. So I guess I don’t really expect them to be any better than average, but it’s just sad to see that assumption is accurate.

For what it’s worth, your/their family will continue to be eligible for VA benefits regardless of where you’re/they’re currently employed. Most of those benefits have no civilian counterparts, so most civilians making that choice have even less safety net. I know Trump/republicans have been working hard to make sure you all don’t have a safety net either, but stepping down politely when asked isn’t making it harder for him to do that.

I truly hope martyrdom is not needed, but people will die because of Trump and they will not have the luxury of a choice. There will be people that stand in Trumps way, and those will unsurprisingly not be people who swore to protect the nation and its people. They’ll just be people choosing to do what they can when they can.

I do appreciate you sharing your perspective.

Maybe it’s just me, but when I see veterans taking buyouts or capitulating to Trump, it upsets me. They took an oath to defend the Constitution and yet they can’t stay in a job to making the incoming fascists work just a little harder? If they’re still referring to their time in the army or are eligible for VA benefits, they should be fighting fascism. We’re all trying our best, and I’m not asking everyone to stay, even though that’d be great if they could, but way to fold like a wet napkin.

I wasn’t intending to imply you said anything, but the author states “we’re just not old enough to benefit from it yet” and that in itself is emblematic of a big issue when it comes to patriarchy and any other power structures. It’s difficult for people to identify it, since it becomes so ingrained.

Young boys benefit from it, but are also restricted by it, and there’s a lot of discussion about that too. Girls being told to “make me a sandwich” (or insert generationally relevant sexist remark) or being sexually harassed at school, and boys being told not to cry or that their interests are “gay” are both examples that I often see emphasized when talking to kids.

I think the author overlooking how boys benefit is part of the problem. These early issues need to be acknowledged and discussed because they help build a foundation of solidarity. If young boys are taught to notice these inequalities early, then they will be more open and able to notice them later. It will also help humanize their classmates.

I hate that all of these discussions inevitably lead to “dating”. This is not directed at you, just the issue in general. Girls are generally the ones engaging in selection, yes, but the fact that this is the issue is kind of the problem in itself. Boys are not owed a girlfriend and their self worth should not be tied to having one. If they have feelings of inadequacy, they will not be solved by getting into a romantic relationship. I feel like no one is talking about why these young boys are striving for romantic relationships to the point that they feel like failures without one. Society is telling boys that they need to value themselves based on their ability to obtain women. This is not a dating market issue. It’s a self esteem/self worth issue, and women are neither the cause nor the solution.

“Touch grass” etc is not at its core bad advice, it just feels hostile and is more difficult than the alternative (doing nothing). Having IRL friends and engaging in activities locally is a great way to build confidence and self worth, but it’s not as fun to start as a video game. I don’t know how the partnership you’re suggesting would work, but I think therapy in general is good, and serves as a kind of alternative to building community, because you get a confidant that provides some pushback the way a normal and diverse friend group might. It’s a good option, but I think less alienation in general is always a good way to build a robust defense to bigotry.

Yea, there were klansmen voting for Obama because they legitimately thought it’d make the whole country kick out black people. People hold really weird beliefs.

There were some good points made, but I don’t know that this is one of them. Households with a son and daughter will still often have gender-segregated household chores for the children. The daughter will do the dishes and the son will take out trash. Different curfews or restrictions and different “talks”. Educators are generally more understanding with disruptive boys. Maybe he did not personally recognize or experience these differences, but they are present from the very beginning.

Other than that, the advice is generally “engage with different people” and that’s been pretty standard for a while, often derisively as “touch grass” or being accused of having “terminally online” takes. He also states that trumps policies are worse for men, but honestly it depends on your perspective. Clearly a lot of men are willing to sacrifice to avoid examining their positions, so if I’m a man unwilling to have my beliefs challenged, I’d rather live in trumps America where women will have to marry me because they can no longer have jobs or bank accounts then spend the time improving myself to become a worthy partner and potentially never getting there.

It makes me so proud to see people talk about undocumented people positively, so thank you for sharing that (I’m assuming the impact they had was positive, apologies if that’s not the case).

Yea, plenty of people have latched onto the general ideology without familiarizing themselves with either the fundamentals or modern praxis. I will wholly admit that I’m not extremely well versed, having only read the most pop-philosophy books/essays. I like to think I make up for it in praxis, but I know we’re all works in progress and I could definitely still benefit from more reading/work. I think alienation has made actually connecting with the OG works harder, but hopefully both L and R magas and everyone in between gets a chance to find themselves in it. Thanks for the reminder.

That’s valid in theory, but I am literally just pointing out a fact. A fact which other people have gotten wrong and are actively spreading misinformation about. Misinformation that harms a minority and underprivileged population, which I’m assuming they care about. I feel like conceptually we should be on the same side, but they refused to even consider that someone else might be right so have just jumped to calling me illiterate apparently. I’m not saying that undocumented students should be deported or anything. I’m literally just advocating for them, because they exist, and it’s important that people know that. Otherwise when the government is accused of departing them everyone will act like they don’t exist and therefore can’t be deported.

I am legitimately struggling to tell the difference between fascists and overzealous leftists who just don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s a very bad position to be in. But, to your point, I guess either way I should give them grace, because obviously their issue is with the system and they are just mistakenly taking it out on me.

I truly do not understand the hostility here. It’s important that people understand that there are undocumented students on college campuses and that this legislation, like basically all legislation from this administration poses real harm to them. Please see the content of this comment I put elsewhere in this thread:

Dreamers is one of the names for undocumented people. DACA is legislation that’s been implemented to protect some of them. Did you even bother reading anything in the above link above? Here’s a direct quote: While there are over 408,000 undocumented students currently enrolled in postsecondary education, less than half (181,000) are DACA-eligible

DACA was implemented because dreamers were going to school already, it’s not HOW they go school.

DACA also does not make someone “documented”. It is a weird loophole, but their immigration status is still technically undocumented despite them being able to work and go to school. Basically the government promises not to do anything about them for a bit. They have to keep renewing that promise. It’s not like a normal visa. The government is not actually giving them a “right” to stay.

See here: “DACA/DACA-mented Students who are DACA recipients (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), also known as “DACA-mented” students, are still considered undocumented students even though they may have a social security number and/or an Employment Authorization Card. DACA students should follow the same steps as an undocumented student when applying to SOU. A copy of your Employment Authorization Card is not required for admission processing.”

And

“Some undocumented students may be part of DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) while others are not.” https://sou.edu/admissions/apply/uid/

“Deferred action is an exercise of prosecutorial discretion to defer removal action against an individual for a certain period of time. Deferred action does not provide lawful status.” https://www.uscis.gov/DACA

I am quite familiar with this particular status. It seems like everybody else is going off of vibes, and not even bothering to take two seconds to google this. Are you familiar with the definition of documented/undocumented? It’s not as simple as the way it’s used in general conversation.

Undocumented students can and do go to college. Some of them are eligible for DACA. DACA does not make you documented.

Dreamers is one of the names for undocumented people. DACA is legislation that’s been implemented to protect some of them. Did you even bother reading anything in the above link above? Here’s a direct quote: While there are over 408,000 undocumented students currently enrolled in postsecondary education, less than half (181,000) are DACA-eligible

DACA was implemented because dreamers were going to school already, it’s not HOW they go school.

DACA also does not make someone “documented”. It is a weird loophole, but their immigration status is still technically undocumented despite them being able to work and go to school. Basically the government promises not to do anything about them for a bit. They have to keep renewing that promise. It’s not like a normal visa. The government is not actually giving them a “right” to stay.

See here: “DACA/DACA-mented Students who are DACA recipients (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), also known as “DACA-mented” students, are still considered undocumented students even though they may have a social security number and/or an Employment Authorization Card. DACA students should follow the same steps as an undocumented student when applying to SOU. A copy of your Employment Authorization Card is not required for admission processing.”

And

“Some undocumented students may be part of DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) while others are not.” https://sou.edu/admissions/apply/uid/

“Deferred action is an exercise of prosecutorial discretion to defer removal action against an individual for a certain period of time. Deferred action does not provide lawful status.” https://www.uscis.gov/DACA

I am quite familiar with this particular status. It seems like everybody else is going off of vibes, and not even bothering to take two seconds to google this. Are you familiar with the definition of documented/undocumented? It’s not as simple as the way it’s used in general conversation.

Undocumented students can and do go to college. Some of them are eligible for DACA. DACA does not make you documented.

Sometimes I can’t tell if I’m arguing with fascists who are attempting to waste my time, or people who are so incapable or uninterested in the conversation they don’t even bother to read the links I readily provided, but for some reason are willing to respond multiple times. Please let me know which you are, so I know if I should even bother with the rest of this conversation.

This is easily googleable and I’ve provided links.

I have no idea why people prefer to spread misinformation instead of taking two seconds to fact check.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/resources/undocumented-students/college-application-guide/

A lot of (if not most) allow you to apply without some of that information and I’ve seen specific workflows set up for undocumented students depending on the school. You can Google most of it, but here’s one of the first results: https://www.bestcolleges.com/resources/undocumented-students/college-application-guide/

There’s a picture of her in the article at several months pregnant, and you can tell she’s wearing baggier clothes, but not much baggier. She says she gained a little weight but not much. It’s a recognized thing among doctors, so not sure why you’re struggling to believe it.

Dreamers are undocumented immigrants who arrived in the United States as children, lived and attended school here, and identify as American.

https://www.presidentsalliance.org/breakdown-of-dreamer-with-and-without-daca/

What are you saying?

Plenty of people at universities never had a visa in the first place.

https://www.thedream.us/news/new-survey-of-dreamer-college-graduates-highlights-importance-of-daca-on-social-mobility-and-workforce-contributions/

You definitely do find undocumented students at universities. There’s a whole name for them and legislation that has attempted to protect them.

Visa revocation is also a thing they are doing though.

https://www.thedream.us/news/new-survey-of-dreamer-college-graduates-highlights-importance-of-daca-on-social-mobility-and-workforce-contributions/

Well, they also don’t like the natives, or themselves, so honestly good work keeping true to the book. 🙃