The credit card was to make you understand that even though no one owns math that doesn’t mean that all information should be free. You’re refusing to tell me your credit card numbers or even what you do for a living, this proving that you’re either a hypocrite or don’t truly believe that ALL information should be free.

Someone paying for art from someone who’s not an artist is definitely a loss for the artist who would have gotten hired instead. The fact that you’re even refusing to acknowledge this simple fact proves just how up your own ass you are.

Then don’t commission digital art, completely your prerogative, but the artist that does digital art is an artist, the person prompting an LLM is not. If you use digital art to make a profit you should have the rights for it, and a person who prompted an LLM can’t because they don’t own the training data, nor any derivation from it.

For the music, go and record chunks from several different music to see if you won’t get the same result, which is essentially what an LLM is doing with other people’s art.

Was it? Is it missing?

If someone grabbed the numbers of your credit card and used it to buy stuff, would you report it stolen? Or you would think that since you still have your card nothing got stolen? Same thing here.

And when did we mention anything about person B? Where is this person? How does this affect them in any way?

Pay attention, person B is the artist who’s not getting hired/commissioned and/or whose data was used to generate the image. Which is why I said I have no issue with personal use, the artist wouldn’t have gotten hired to draw an artifact that I will show for 5 seconds to my RPG players, no harm no foul. However if I was running the game on YouTube, or otherwise earning money from it then I should pay for it or not use it.

When I learned to play guitar did I steal the chords? I certainly learned to play other peoples songs, did I steal those too? I am now influenced by those songs, did I suddenly take away someones livelyhood?

If you recorded and sold those songs you would have quickly found out that there are copyrighted. This is the same case, we’re talking about someone profiting from it, not using for personal use.

In any case, so if I understand your argument: if the data was trained on publicly available data, you wouldn’t care.

If it was trained using data that the creators gave explicit permission for it to be used in that way then no, I wouldn’t have any issue with it. But publicly available data to view does not equate publicly available data to train a model, same as it wouldn’t allow you to print it and sell copies. Displaying something publicly doesn’t give you ownership of it.

Again, what exactly is the immoral act?

Like I said many times, the training data is stolen, if someone stole your personal data and impersonates you they’re committing an immoral act, this is exactly the same thing. Person A does the immoral act of using stolen data from person B to generate images directly harming person’s B livelihood, the fact that a person C is willing to pay for it is completely pointless.

You really are bad at making arguments.

No, you’re really bad at understanding them. You yourself made the argument that math is math and can’t be owned nor stolen, by that standard numbers are numbers and can’t be owned or stolen either. Stop to think things through before making blanket statements.

Regardless of the immoral act, your argument is wrong. A third party willing to pay has no bearing on the morality of an act, doesn’t matter how much you try to escape this.

You didn’t replied what you do for a living, I’m sure you didn’t because you know that there’s a very high chance I can show you you don’t truly believe that all knowledge must be free. Let me ask you other question then, what’s your credit card numbers, expiration date and code, it’s just numbers, by your own logic you shouldn’t have any claim to own them, therefore you should be okay to share them. The fact that you won’t is proof you understand that even if numbers can’t be owned, the information numbers convey is a different story.

And no, the companies are not claiming to own math, but to own the algorithm, the math on which those are based is (in general) public knowledge, and even in the cases where it’s not, like you said, math is math, others might have discovered it individually. Multiple of those companies might be using the same math independently without realizing it.

I don’t consider jaywalking immoral, so no, not the same.

Regardless of the seriousness of the immoral act, my point is the same, person A’s immoral act that affects person B doesn’t become OK because person C is willing to pay for it. Which is your argument, I’m pointing out how ridiculous an argument it is by using something you should easily consider immoral, and not in any way suggesting that generating images for profit should be penalized in the same manner or that is equally immoral, just that your logic does not apply to immoral acts.

I strongly suspect you do believe that in the world we live in ideas can be owned, let me ask you, what do you do for a living? Because if ideas can’t be owned, intellectual work shouldn’t be remunerated, as you can simply grab whatever is produced without paying the person and it wouldn’t be theft.

Yes, math is math, no one is claiming to own the math behind LLMs, but that math is applied to training data that does have an owner. You might as well claim you didn’t kill the person you shot, physics and biology did. The immoral act is the stealing of the training data, and any byproduct of that is fruit of the poisoned tree.

It’s the same argument you’re making, that morality doesn’t matter as long as there are paying customers, if morality doesn’t matter because there are paying customers for AI stolen art, why does it matter for child pornography? Either morality matters or it doesn’t.

It’s still free in Ireland, at least for home use.

I mean, calories in/out is real, you can’t get fat if you’re eating less than what you’re spending. On the other hand you definitely can thin up eating more calories than you spend by for example going into ketosis where calories don’t matter all that much.

All of that being said, calories in/out is not the whole picture, like you mentioned there are plenty of other stuff that might make it so that two people eating the same and exercising the same amount get drastically opposite results. At the end of the day our bodies have a calorie budget they’re trying to stick to, eating less (or actually eating better) is the solution, exercising helps but not in increasing your calorie budget, only in directing your budget to be more healthy.

Don’t mix up optimistic nihilism with moral wrongness, you can be “nothing matters let’s have a good time” while at the same time wanting everyone else to also have a good time.

MMA also has rules and it’s also a sport, but it has the less amount of rules so it’s the sport that more closely resembles real fights. But still self-defense (think Krav-Maga or similar) has lots of stuff that is not allowed in MMA. That being said, MMA is the safest way to train against a fully uncooperative attacker, so it’s the best way to train self-defense on the long run, but some classes and training on how to properly kick balls, bite, and gauge eyes are a great addition for real life-or-death situations.

Honestly modern python is not that bad because of the typing hints and checks you can run on them nowadays. Also it’s worth noting that python has very strong types, so it’s not illy willy magical types, and while it is possible to use it like that it’s normally not encouraged (unlike other languages).

That being said, if you haven’t learnt Rust I strongly encourage you to read the book and go through the rustling exercises. Honestly while still a new and relatively nieche language, it fixes so many of the issues that exist in other languages that I think it will slowly take over everything. Sure. It’s slower to write, but you avoid so much hassle on maintenance afterwards.

They meant that downloading is a type of saving.

No it’s not, they’re completely different concepts. In C/C++ lingo Dynamic typing is having every variable be a void * whereas type coercion is implementing conversion functions for your types to allow casting between types, e.g. having a temperature class that can be casted to a double (or from it).

This is a function with dynamic typing and no type coercion in C/C++:

int foo(void* param) {
  Temperature* t = (Temperature*) param;
   return t->intValue() + 10;
}

This is the same function with type coercion and no dynamic typing in C/C++:

int foo(Temperature& t) {
  return t + 10;
}

What are you talking about? What do you think C/C++/Rust/Java do?

Digital art is not any more assisted than digital writing, do you also refuse to buy ebooks?

I’m talking about the morality of it, whether someone pays for it or not is irrelevant. Child porn is morally wrong, regardless of there being a market for it.

Being slop or not is not the issue, the real question is is it morally correct. To me it depends on your usage, are you generating stuff for yourself? Then it doesn’t matter. Are you generating stuff to communicate to the artist you’re hiring your intended vision of the thing, or building a mood board or similar? Then it’s probably okay in my book. Are you using the generated image for something or selling it? Then it’s wrong.

Fossil fuel also pollutes when being extracted and refined, and probably more than batteries being produced, and batteries are only produced once.

Changing your car for an EV is not good for the environment, but considering getting an EV for your next car is.

Plus, we should also migrate the power generation to renewable sources, claiming EV cars aren’t worth it because power generation is still fossil in your country is similar to saying we shouldn’t recycle because companies don’t.

The problem with dynamic typing is not one that can be solved, even with a live running program you might not be hitting the edge case where you’re passing a wrong type.

It’s fine for small stuff, but when you’re developing a piece of software with hundreds or thousands of classes, functions, and APIs it’s impossible to mentally keep track of everything. And adding a type checker is tangential to overriding all of the benefits of a dynamic typing system.

This is one of those things like a trick picture where you can’t see it until you do, and then you can’t unsee it.

I started with C/C++ so typing was static, and I never thought about it too much. Then when I started with Python I loved the dynamic typing, until it started to cause problems and typing hints weren’t a thing back then. Now it’s one of my largest annoyances with Python.

A similar one is None type, seems like a great idea, until it’s not, Rust solution is much, much better. Similar for error handling, although I feel less strongly about this one.

Keto is about carbohydrates, not calories. Whip cream (as long as you don’t do it with sugar) is absolutely keto, it has almost no carbs, despite the high calorie and fat count, but those are supposedly irrelevant on keto diets.