Skiluros

Let’s leave the role of the US alone for now. I was just sharing my perspective in context or recent developments.

I can see how the term degeneracy could be seen as loaded in the US context.

But then my question would be, how would you describe Rogan’s behaviour and the fact that this particular act had zero impact on Rogan’s popularity? One could say that at the very least his following (and he is one of the largest media personalities in his home country) is tolerant of such acts.

I would even go as far as saying that in other cultures even conservatives would share my views about the regressive nature of Rogan’s behaviour and the tolerance of his following for such antics.

I started reading the article and I was curious what the context was and who was involved.

I was shocked to hear that it was Douglas Murray who got into a conflict with Rogan. Murray out of all people (I am aware of his chauvinism due to some other stuff).

What really struck me about this article was this:

Nine days and five shows later, Rogan hosted Tim Dillon, another anti-woke comic, and together they impersonated Murray’s voice like middle schoolers at a sleepover. (“You haven’t beeeeen?”)

I am not American, but I have lived there and travelled extensively. I have close friends who live there (both locals and immigrants from a very young age).

I would always defend the US as a force for good in the democratic world (albeit a very flawed one) and highlight that compared to other major powers (russia, china), the US has been involved in a very good outcomes (post WW2 Germany/Japan, Poland and the Baltic nations after the breakup of the USSR).

With the reelection of Trump, I am starting to wonder if this well ever be possible again (from my perspective Trump is a symptom, not a cause).

But Rogan’s behaviour is an example of degeneracy. True degeneracy. Not degenerate as a random insult or say the term “degenerate gambler”, but the actual term like in the dictionary. A regressive, undesirable behaviour that is an affront to the development of human society. And this is perhaps the largest media personality in the US.

It’s going to be very difficult for sane Americans to root out such degeneracy. And there are unfortunately (in my opinion) certain negative elements of American culture that are going to reinforce such behaviour. It will require novel approaches that I don’t believe Americans have the capability to explore (I hope I am wrong).

Agreed, but do you really need knowledge of political philosophy to do that?

The impression I got from living in the US is that it’s not so much a problem with identification, but more like a desire to avoid rather uncomfortable topics.

I don’t know, maybe I just don’t get it. I will admit that I could be wrong, I am just thinking out loud based on my experiences. 😀

See, I don’t you need know anything about political philosophy to understand how oligarchs function and to well, identify oligarchs.

It’s almost like she is insulting her fellow citizens.

The implication that I see (based on her statement) is that other people in her country lack the capability to comprehend the notion of oligarchy or they are too corrupt themselves to support anti-corruption reform.

Respect to David Hogg. I meant this in a more broader perspective.

I am comparing to global examples. One would be Hong Kong. They failed, but they actually were able to shut down the local airport for a short period.

Or say the initial phase of the Syrian revolution. The population openly protested against a brutal regime that was in power for many decades and there were many examples of their brutality.

I specifically chose failed or highly controversial situations (to highlight how a fight for freedom involves scary and painful choices, this is not a movie). From my experience living in the US, I thought local risk tolerance was low. On a certain level, the US is too well off to have the motivation for resistance (be it mass scale ptotest, 10% of pop or more, weekly protest or violent rebellion).

I don’t know how to say it diplomatically, but true fight for freedom doesn’t seem like the American way.

It is clear that Americans (not only Trump, but also Biden, and locals too) fundamentally do not understand how to deal with russians.

I was having a chat with a taxi driver last winter when the electricity blackouts were really bad (I live in Ukraine). I said, we should bomb the heating/electricity generation in Norilsk in the middle of winter.

The driver tells, that’s not going to work, if you do bomb russia, it has to be Moscow or at least Saint Petersburg.

To which I answer, “yes, you are right, they don’t care what happens outside of Moscow or Saint Petersburg. I am stressed out and not thinking straight.”

The vast majority of russians only understand believable threats and violence. You have to show them that you are able and willing to make them feel pain, otherwise they are not going to respect you or behave seriously.

And when you do show them that you are able and willing to make them feel pain, it has to be targeted primarily at their elite (i.e. Moscow and Saint Petersburg).

But since 2014, I’ve learned that Western elites (and not only elites) reflexively refuse to address reality. Not only Trump/Biden, the Germans with Angela Merkel too. Right after the annexation of Crimea she launched NS2. Hope she gets severe Alzheimer’s.

Fascinating stuff.

I am not American (have previously lived in North America for a decade and travelled extensively in the region), but based on my experiences this is a very good example of how the US centre-right opposition is completely unqualified for any kind of real action. They clearly lack the risk tolerance and gumption to deal with current internal challenges in their country.

The so far hits so hard because it is true.

Interesting article, some broad-based analysis, but also a South African perspective.

I would almost argue World News is a better fit for this content.

Thanks for sharing.

Willingness to keep protesting and commitment does seem to be critical as per successful global examples.

I wonder what our Revolution of Dignity would fall under.

At the peak, I believe Kyiv alone had 500K protesters (with many regional centres also being major protest hotspots). But we also had armed rebellion closer to the presidential office in Feb 2014.

In Chenoweth’s data set, it was only once the nonviolent protests had achieved that 3.5% threshold of active engagement that success seemed to be guaranteed – and raising even that level of support is no mean feat. In the UK it would amount to 2.3 million people actively engaging in a movement (roughly twice the size of Birmingham, the UK’s second largest city); in the US, it would involve 11 million citizens – more than the total population of New York City.

A quick search suggests US has twice achieved the 3.5% threshold, the record being in 2020 with the George Floyd protests (15M to 25M) and Earth Day in 1970 with 20M protesters (assuming this was the biggest US protest in recent history on a population adjusted level).

Perhaps the difference relative to other countries was that Americans didn’t explicitly protest for removal of the existing regime.

Cringe.

The good thing from all of this is that non-Americans will start to take a more mature and sober view of American society. No offense to sane Americans, it’s not only Trump, he is merely a symptom of broader social problems and an inability to tackle corruption and the cultural influence of oligarchs on the American psyche.

P.S. I am not American, but I have lived there and have close friends who live there.

As someone who has lived in the US earlier in my life, it was a bit of a cultural shock to hear how much Americans engage in repetition of what I call “freedom polemics” and references to the constitution and so on.

My initial reaction almost mildly combative, I did not find the locals’ commitment to freedom or alleged understanding of constitutional governance to be convincing. There was an element of farce around the whole thing and it got on my nerves.

It was clear that Americans weren’t actually committed to freedom or had any understanding of the complexities, nuances and painful, scary choices that are inherent to acting on your belief in human freedoms.

I very quickly learned to tune out the everpresent “freedom polemics” mini-rants and just go with the flow. When you are living in (or even visiting) a new country, you need leave your expectations behind to appreciate the good things about a given region/country.

Mind you, I don’t think it’s fair to expect some sort of super-human commitment from Americans to fight for freedom, we are all human with both strengths and flaws. That being said, people in other countries do not regularly go on mini rants about how they believe in freedom (even those that actually make massive sacrifices and put themselves at risk because of their beliefs in fundamental human freedoms).