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Joined 6 months ago
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Cake day: February 23rd, 2025

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  • Thank you for this thought through response. I’ve been meaning to get back to it sooner, but I have been very tired after work and not feeling I have the bandwith the matter deserves. I’m afraid this might not be the evening either, but I found it rude to not respond at all.

    One caveat I’d like to enter into the wider discussion is that the distinction between “acting” and “talking” is often more tenuous than either of us have acknowledged thus far.

    Either way, to the point where you say we differ most, i.e. “but first people need to realize the switch is even there”. From my perspective, what I fail to understand is when you would consider that condition met. Should action be deferred until there’s a perfect consensus or at what point do you envision that enough people have come to that realization? Do you consider people embracing ideas like this to be likely to happen, considering real world conditions? Both genuine questions, not rhetorical.

    I too am a believer that it is perfectly possible for humans to live good lives outside of the (selectively available) exesses of the fossil fuel paradigm. But I also think it’s evident that paradigm will only come to an end through either a decisive and global shift of our collective lifestyles and economies or through the looming risk of societal collapse. At this rate, my frustration is that collapse will come knocking before we’re done talking. I’m not as optimistic as you, that we can figure it out, let cooler heads prevail and do things perfectly and achieve a smooth transition. I think it’s worth considering that we might stand to lose a lot, whether we commit to change or not; one thing that sometimes get glossed over about fossil fues is that they’re damn near magical in terms of what they have enabled us to do.

    Maybe we mostly differ in outlook, not predominantly in what we hope for. Because I sure do hope your more optimistic takes prove right.

    My apologies for the jumbled and poorly proof-read stream of concioussness, I really need to go to sleep now.


  • I strongly disagree.

    In a lot of ”very complex” issues, the answers are really simple, and we all know fully well how to solve them.

    This is particularly true of the large existential problems we are facing. With climate change, for instance, we have known the solution for a long time: stop burning fossil fuels.

    What to do about it has been clear, straightforward and simple all along, but not easy – it would have taken sacrifice to achieve it. We’d have to live more simply, do away with consumerism and have to put things on hold while we find sustainable ways to do them. And we probably would have had to take enormous risks to our own lives, to stop those that wouldn’t aggressively cut down on fossil fuels voluntarily. Without any guarantees of success.

    Even transitioning to a solar punk utopia would have been hard, including for those on board from the start.

    All while the alternative to the solution is to to have long warm showers at will, enough cheap food that we can get really fat and still throw half of it away, intercontinental air travel that costs less than a bus pass, and so on.

    It’s not because we have talked too little or that the discourse hasn’t been good enough that we can’t seem to solve it – our most brilliant minds have talked endlessly for a generation about climate change and how to address it. It’s simply because quitting our fossil fuels addiction is a bitter fucking pill to swallow. And pointless if you do it alone.

    The same goes for the ”slow” slide into fascism all over the West, a.k.a. the steady concentration of wealth in the hands of dumber and dumber financial elites. (Not that it’s a separate issue from climate change.)

    If you want to beat it, whether peacefully or not, you eventually have to accept that your next meal won’t be guaranteed and that, you might get beaten, arrested or even killed – hungry, tired and cold.

    As our American friends have showed us, on this matter, the stakes of disruptive protests are not very appealing – it’s better to continue going to the office, get that paycheck that keeps the lights on, holds off the bank from taking your home and lets the fridge stay full, even if that means paying taxes to and serving those you protest in the weekends and in social media posts.

    Tackling these issues does not require exceptional individuals, but a lot of ordinary ones working together, accepting that it’s probably gonna suck really bad. Even so, there is already an abundance of extraordinary people out there, notably Greta Thunberg (of this thread fame).

    And yes, it does also take talk to bring those people together, but that talk won’t get you around the hard parts.














  • Nothing dickish about making your point, that’s what we’re here for.

    I agree that we need effective measures, in terms of combatting climate change there are few things that are more efficient than eliminating animal agriculture. For there to even be a long term, at all, drastic measures are needed in the short term.

    But at this point, it feels like LARPing to bother thinking about, climate change. Not a lot of room for the issue in the flooded zone.



  • “We need to eat” rhymes poorly with climate wrecking animal farming, which not only speeds up harvest devastating warming and flooding – it also consumes a lot of food and uses enormous amounts of farmable land.

    Poor people are not in any way immune to the apocalypse and will have to change their lifestyles one way or the other.

    You’re championing dying with a belly full of cheeseburgers over tofu and a shot at long term survival. It’s not progressive.


  • You are right that there are no perfect democracies, but the EU really isn’t even close. Rather the EU should foremost be considered a technocracy with some formal democratic underwriting.

    In most cases, that’s totally fine and not a problem in terms of democracy. Most policies, especially in the matters the EU was originally formed to make decisions on, there isn’t a huge interest for citizens to get involved – national interests (governments) and organized interest/lobby groups usually offer enough avenues for input on things like technical agricultural export standards. However, as the Union expands into things like organizing mass surveillance under flimsy pretexts, and whatnot, private citizens aren’t adequately represented – a stronger popular mandate is required for the decisionmaking to truly be considered democratic.

    Formally, I, as a citizen of an EU member state, can influence the decisions of the EU in two ways: By voting for my country’s parliament every fourth year and by voting in the general elections for European Parliament every fifth. So let’s examine how far that goes.

    Where I live, the main opposition party and the largest government party generally agree on most controversial issues pertaining to privacy or individual rights, e.g. Chat Control. Together these parties control a majority of the seats of parliament. Those parties gain the bulk of their support on domestic issues, such as tax policy, crime prevention, etcetera. Thus, question like Chat Control are essentially dead on arrival in terms of parliamentary politics. Now, my country is also not a perfect democracy, but comparatively it would (justly) rank quite high and parties can be responsive to popular opinion and outcries. So let’s say a citizen group managed to put Chat Control on the agenda, to the point where parties feel vulnerable on the issue. What then? Then that amounts to one vote out of 27 in the European Council, which is only meaningful when that is enough for a veto.

    But the ubiquitous vetoes are what truly undermines the EU’s standing as a democracy, in my opinion. Notably, vetoes are pretty much the best you can get from your EP vote as well, in terms of the parliament’s decision making powers. In reality, the only thing citizens of the EU can rally behind is stopping proposals by, chiefly, the supreme technocratic body, the Commission. There is no cross-border party mechanism with pan-European campaigning on the council level. Voters do not influence majorities. And on the EP level the party mechanism, built on “political groups”, is opaque and not truly cross-border. Cohesive citizen involvement is foreign to the EU decision making process.

    That is not to say that the EU is a nefarious body, or that the democratic deficiencies are intended to alienate EU citizens from the decision process. It’s just that it is glaring, especially in the context of Chat Control, that public opinion isn’t in the driver’s seat.