I’m seeing a bunch of posts about how Google has decided to stop allowing side loading on Android phones. But the EU relatively recently forced Apple to do the exact opposite. Won’t they just do the same thing for Android phones? Sure, people outside the EU market will lose this ability as a default, but presumably you can just order a Euro phone on ebay if you are outside the EU.
So why is everyone panicking? I think Google is definitely being shitty by trying to do this, and I support the development of other open source alternatives. I like the fact that this could be a big wakeup call for that effort. But I am wondering if this is also not as big of a deal as everyone is making out.
Technically it will still be allowed. In reality, it will just be Play Store without a nice UI. Now question is whether or not it’s enough for the European Comission to take action.
The EU requires Apple to allow direct installation of apps, but tolerates Apple requiring the apps to be signed with an Apple-approved key, which makes it possible for Apple to ban developers.
Google’s plan seems to be similar.
I mean, sure. If you want to actually read and understand the details then I suppose this is fine. But what if you just want to circle jerk on the internet? Eh? What do you have say about that? 🙃
This is absolutely not fine, but it’s probably not illegal under the EU DMA.
The theory I’ve heard is that is exactly why they are doing it now, as apple has set the “side loading” precedent in the EU.
I don’t see how it’s fine because it’s basically just a loophole that makes the law useless isn’t it? If they have ultimate authority over what is and isn’t allowed on your phone, and the owner of the phone has no say in that, what do the details of how it happens matter?
The EU’s goal is to increase competition. They want businesses, especially EU-based businesses to be more able to compete with established tech firms.
The EU does not particularly care about your ownership of your device or your right to create or install whatever software you want. The EU may even be a bit opposed to that and prefer a situation where it can pressure Apple and Google to ban things it doesn’t like.
EU regulators are no more on your side than Apple is when it says its app store monopoly is for your protection.
Now what we really need is for the EU close this obvious loophole and take on Google too while they’re at it
You see, that’s the fun thing.
Android will still technically allow sideloading, they’ll just make it difficult and scary for average user, and annoying for devs.
If Android still follows the letter of the law, the courts can’t order any fines.
The law is very broad though, and can still be changed and amended.
For most of Android’s existance you have been able to sideload apps, now if that won’t be possible any more, I’d expect that the EU will implement the same demand against Alphabet as they did against Apple:
Yup. The only issue is that Apple got this slap in the face after years of locking down their hardware. If android movies in a similar direction, we can probably expect years before any action against it is taken.
Android, iOS and Windows all fall under the same regulation. It wouldn’t take years - the law (Digital Market Act - DMA) is already in place.
The EU doesn’t seem to be nearly as inept as our government when it comes to tech
Swede here, just look up “chat control”…
Despite what your favorite tech blog might’ve said, the EU hasn’t forced Apple to allow sideloading (more than is already allowed in the US and most of the rest of the world).
They forced Apple to allow third-party app stores (apps where you DOWNload other apps). Google is planning on doing exactly what Apple is doing in the EU, but globally.
They could’ve just added an option in the OS to only accept apps signed by Google alongside “Install unknown apps” but nooo, they had to do it the Apple way and take the freedom of installing any app you want entirely.
Fuck em’.
Yes these changes made by Google are technically in violation of the DMA, but the courts are sloooow. And so far google has only announced these changes afaik, not actually shipped them. They will probably be forced to support third party stores properly at some point.
Unless of course the EU chat control laws get passed, because if they do, then you can just forget about all these digital openness and privacy laws because they are completely worthless then. Locked down stores would be the number one method of distributing backdoored apps to allow them to “protect the children”…
Android will still allow sideloading in future. They are making it harder, but compared to Apple (even in the EU), their new policies are still more open.
For example, you will still be able to download an APK from github (as long as it is signed, which generally is the case when the app is available on google play) - but you can’t do this with an iPhone.
Edit: Everyone is panicking because nobody knows Google’s next move. Maybe they will restrict which apps are allowed, maybe block some apps they don’t like (like unofficial youtube clients), or block sideloading completely in a future release.
most open source apps are not available on the play store, most developers will not accept having to hand over their government ID to google, and this will stop most future open source developers from creating anything for android
people are panicking because what we know so far is bad enough already
You seem to not know what you’re talking about. I trust F-Droid and their interpretation of what Google is doing and what I have read from Google about what they’re doing, and you aren’t quite grasping it.
I trust f-droid too. Their approach to building apps is truly at risk. But as of the Google blog article, installing apks is not affected as long as they are signed.
The apk on f-droid already must be signed by the developer or f-droid. The problem is developers don’t want anything to do with google. If they wanted to submit their personal details to Google, they’d already use the play store?
https://f-droid.org/2023/09/03/reproducible-builds-signing-keys-and-binary-repos.html
“as long as they are signed”
As long as you want to pay the fee and have your identity and address verified and get big brothers permission to have it signed. A lot of people who make apks don’t want to do all that so they can freely release their apk for the appreciation of anyone who would want to use it. “As long as they are signed” is nearly gatekeeping away anyone who wants to make a program without monetizing or gaining from it in any way.
I’m going to go ahead and say that ‘side loading’ is something that does not require approval or authorization from the owner of the system that does the ‘regular loading’. So if it requires google authorization, it’s not ‘side loading’, it’s alternative regular loading. Your attitude is very ‘segregation won’t affect you if you’re white’.
No, this is correct. What F-Droid worries about is that a lot of open source apps aren’t signed and that the developers don’t want to verify their id with Google, which would prevent distribution.
All APK from f-droid are signed. Just not with a key approved by Google.
Yes, that is what I meant.
But doesn’t f-droid build and sign with a repository key themselves (therefore prooving that the app comes from the source)? If this is the case only f-droid repos would need to validate a key with Google
Potentially, but I doubt Google would accept it.
