The title is a bit misleading, as the article lists diverging analysts’ opinions, ranging from Valve willing to sell at a loss or low margins, to high prices due to RAM and SSD price volatility.
Moore’s Law Is Dead thinks that Valve basically got a bargain bin deal from AMD, who had a bunch of chips they thought were going to be used in a MSFT tablet, but that tablet got cancelled.
So, Valve did some scrapyard engineering, and got a discount on these things that were otherwise never going to be used for anything.
He estimates a total cost to produce of $425, estimates MSRP between $450 to $600, depending on just how hard Valve wants to fuck MSFT with their own leftovers.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sJI3qTb2ze8
If this ends up being remotely accurate, it would be basically a corporate demolition of Shakespearian quality.
Gabe… Gabe was once a MSFT employee, you see.
A disgruntled former MSFT employee, you might say.
Sorry but the people getting excited thinking this steam pc is going to do big numbers and hurt MS are delusional. The specs on this thing are worse than the current gen consoles, the base PS5 and the Series X. It is only RDNA 3 so it doesn’t get FSR4 either.
The PS5 and Series X render most games at sub-1080p and then upscale to 4K. This thing is going to have to render at sub 720p and then upscale.
Rumors is that the original Zen CPU SoC in the Steam Deck was also the leftovers from another canceled project by “a major OEM”, so it’s plausible. Sounds like Microsoft planned a handheld Xbox much earlier, which years after the Deck turned into the ROG collaboration, could have been related
I had not heard that before, but uh, extremely funny if true.
Its like MacroHard just keeps punching themself in the face.
MSFT? Microsoft?
Yes.
Sorry, its either/both their stock ticker, a fairly common way they refer to themselves internally.
I too used to work for Microsoft.
Wooo boy, being one of two people trying to make the multi hundred, maybe over a thousand node, call center / support tree node system work correctly, for the 360, during the ‘red ring of death’ (3RR was the code we used for ‘you are absolutely fucked’)… yeah that was fun.
That sounds interesting. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your experience, if you’re not bound by an NDA?
I have before in other comments in other threads… but I am about to pass out, and being on mobile with a shit tier phone makes searching my own comment history somewhat cumbersome.
Uh… reply to this in 10 hrs and I will probably be awake and find those old comments?
(Also, its been a while since I worked for them, but even if I was bound by an NDA, I wouldn’t give a fuck, I didn’t do anything that important, really. Just another V Dash amongst many.)
Thank you for taking the time to reply despite your situation. I’ll try to remember to ping you tomorrow, but don’t feel obligated.
As long as it doesn’t run Win11
I’m sure it will be able to, but it will come pre-installed with steamOS (arch btw).
If you install windows don’t you lose FEX? You’d probably have to run it as a virtual machine so you were still getting x86 instruction code translation. But it’ll be able to run Windows applications via wine anyway so there isn’t a great deal of point.
I think you got a bit confused… FEX is used in the steam frame (VR headset) because it uses an ARM processor to save battery. The steam machine uses a normal x64 CPU and appears to be using some relatively standard pc hardware, so no compatibility layers are needed for windows (only drivers are needed) I doubt you’ll be able to install windows on the steam frame though, for the reason you say (arm compatibility is a mess).
I thought the steam machine was the one that used the arm chip
It definitely doesn’t.
No way in hell. For $1,000 I’ll just build one myself.
Which is why all these analyses are stupid. We don’t need to do anything anywhere near as complicated as looking to market interactions and equivalent cost pricing. Because it’s obvious that at $1,000 it’ll flop and presumably valve know that.
I like the theory that they got the CPU and GPU at bargain basement prices because it was left over from some previously scrapped project of Microsoft or something. That would explain why it’s such a weird architecture.
If that rumour were true it would mean that there will only be limited amounts of this machine since they stopped making the chips long ago. The rumour makes no sense.
Not as in physically leftover chips. The rumour is that Microsoft or some other company but probably Microsoft we’re looking at making a gaming phone or something so they needed a powerful APU that was power efficient and didn’t generate a lot of heat. So AMD went through the whole designing process with them only for Microsoft to decide at the last minute to pull out.
Very few chips wherever actually made, but AMD still had to eat to the cost of the design process, so they were casting around looking for someone who wanted the chips so they could make their money back. Somehow Valve found out about this said to AMD that if they turned it into a CPU (because they wanted a laptop GPU not a mobile GPU) and made some other tweaks, they’d put in an order for tens of thousands. So that’s what AMD did. It’s unclear if they got a deal on the GPUs or not, whether or not they did will have a big impact on pricing.
This would explain why it’s a mobile CPU, as there’s very little reason you would go that route unless that was your primary constraint. So the theory is that they had a CPU and they had to build a computer around that. Which would mean that the Steam Machine was probably never actually going to exist, and we would have just had the VR headset and the controller.
If this is true then this would have all happened around 2021 so the run will be basically complete now, but valve can still putting orders for more if pre-orders exceed expected values.
It’s likely in everybody’s best interest that this is a wild success. Not only will game developers be incentivized to actually optimize their games for reasonable setups; this will unseat Nvidia’s monopoly over gamers with their ridiculously overpriced graphics cards and also Microsoft’s monopoly of a gamer’s operating system.
Nvidia’s partnership with Palantir is incredibly concerning and any blow to Nvidia is a welcome one. Encourage these developments and hype this all up.
I found this mini PC for $360 with a 780M, so 12 RDNA 3 CUs compared to Steam Machine’s 28. If Steam Machine is priced proportionally, it would be in the $800s. A 780M is about twice as powerful as the Steam Deck’s GPU. If I knew for sure the Steam Machine weren’t going to have 2-3x the power for only $200ish more, I’d buy something like this right now, because I’m mainly looking for a HTPC that can play couch-friendly games on a TV better than the Deck, which this type of machine accomplishes.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CB32HKC5/?psc=1
Edit:
As an aside, I recently experimented with Pegasus Frontend launching VacuumTube and the Jellyfin desktop client, and while the UX is not quite as refined as Android TV, I think I’m happy enough with it to switch to Linux on a mini PC while I wait for Plasma Bigscreen.
Dude the switch 2 is $500. Having a general purpose computer that hooks just as easily to your TV as a gaming console for double that price is perfectly fine IMO.
A new Steam Deck OLED is $650 right now. Y’all are absolutely delusional if you think Valve is gunna sell the new Steam Machine with 6x the power of a Deck for $600.
Personally, I think $800 is the absolute lowest these things will go for, and that is a stretch. Unless they are planning on cutting the price on Decks by 20-30% which would be ludicrous considering they are already selling them at a loss and making up the difference on the game sales.
Valve has already said they are pricing the Steam Machines as entry level gaming PCs. And Idk what world some people are living in, but this ain’t 2010 anymore. Entry level PCs are $750+ nowadays, unless you are buying some parts used.
I’m not happy about this. I remember back in highschool building some nice entry level gaming rigs for $500, but those days are long past. I probs won’t be getting a Steam Machine, but that’s because I am a tinkerer and I’ll just jank one together for my own use, but for somebody who wants a solid entry-level gaming PC that has a really great ecosystem around it and is no muss no fuss, the Steam Machine is a pretty good option.
My prediction: 512GB Steam Machine will be $800-$900, the 2TB one will be $1,000-$1,200.
Why is the two terabyte model $300 more expensive than the 512 GB, a 2 terabyte storage module definitely does not cost $300. Also the steam deck is quite old now, so for the same price as what they paid for the steam deck chips they could get a more powerful chip, so there’s no reason to necessarily believe that they are paying considerably more for the chips in the steam machine than they paid for the chips in the steam deck. Also if you look at pricing for equivalently capable hardware you can do it for about $450 retail, and obviously Valve are not paying retail.
Becsuse they said the Frame was gonna be less than a Index complete kit ($1200) I kinda wondered if the GabeCube would be $1200.
Which, since I haven’t built a PC since just before COVID lockdowns but keep hesring about soaring costs, I’m not sure if that is actually a decent price, a low price, or a high price.
Low
I can’t guess at what the price will be or what makes sense for Valve, but I’m not interested at $1000. I can do a Linux box on my own for much less, or for about the same amount, a Windows box that can run all games without tinkering.
There are two red flags on the new Steam Machine — the fact that it still includes USB-A ports and the 8GB of VRAM. Anything under 12GB is a major problem in 2025. While there are adapters for USB, I hope they offer a version that includes 12GB or 16GB VRAM.
I was pricing out an entry level gaming PC for one of the grandkids for Christmas and the price of parts has gone mad. It’s even worse if you want to make a smaller ITX build. How does less material and complexity translate to higher costs? And storage and memory are ridiculous. With a few small upgrades, even at $1,000 these would be a steal. It’s a shame they won’t ship before the holidays.
So right now, we’re discussing Steam Decks with some third party docks and accessories so they can be used like a PC. I can’t find anything better.
the fact that it still includes USB-A ports
Why complain about this? This is a good thing. Most people have USB-A peripherals and the majority of new keyboards and mice even in 2025 still rely on it. Game controllers too: Switch 2 Pro, Xbox Elite 2, 8bitdo wireless controllers, and many others all include a USB A to C cable (cables with USB-C on both ends can be used too but need to be bought separately) for charging and optional wired play, and all modern wired-only controllers use a USB-A cable. Far better for the device to offer USB-A ports than force most users to buy USB-A adapters.
This system does have one USB-C port on the back, though it would be better if it had one on the front too in addition to the USB-A ones.
the fact that it still includes USB-A ports
Majority of peripherals still use USB-A.
Anything under 12GB is a major problem in 2025.
That’s hilarious considering the GabeCube’s config is based off of the most common hardware config according to Steam data. If I remember right, it’s slightly better than that common config.
It’s not a device for 4k/144Hz gaming.
It’s even worse if you want to make a smaller ITX build. How does less material and complexity translate to higher costs?
More difficult manufacturing process, and lower overall sales (which means higher per-unit production costs).
So right now, we’re discussing Steam Decks with some third party docks and accessories so they can be used like a PC. I can’t find anything better.
Unless you’re full-on anti-Windows, look into the ROG Ally. A friend of mine got one and is super happy with it.
It’s not a device for 4K/144Hz gaming
Someone should tell Valve that then, cause they’re advertising it as 4K60, which it has no hope of hitting.
Umm… Do you not understand the difference between “144” and “60”?
$1000 is still less expensive than my next PC I would need to buy after Windows 10 ends.
If it can run the Epic Games Launcher, too, I would use the Steam Machine for gaming, some cheap laptop with Windows 11 for my tax software and everything else that forces you to use Windows, and a Mac for work.
My biggest complaint about the Steam Deck is that it’s too underpowered, so yes, I would in fact love a $1000 Steam Machine. Can we have a $3000 one too, please? I want a luggable PC that can handle games with RT in 4K 120Hz.
Sounds like the next gen Xbox’s are right up your alley.
I don’t want a console. I need to be able to hack, mod, and pirate my games as I see fit.
Yes, I’m ready. I’m interested in buying all three new products. Whether I do depends on price. I’m fine with not buying them if I deem them not worth the cost for me.
I kinda doubt Valve would produce and sell a Machine with a 1k USD target price. When watching the announcement video, I was wondering how affordable it would be, whether it would be something like 300 € (not having seen any specs), although the “runs even the big titles” puts that into question to a degree.
There’s no real use in speculating. It’s better to just wait. I didn’t look for or into third party information either. I’m waiting for official information, waiting for the next announcements and/with product page launches.
Well, they already told the press that it will be pricier than normal consoles, because in the end it is a PC and they cannot make good losses with games like Sony and Microsoft do, because it is an open market.
The LTT video on the steam machine is a good watch on this I think
300€ ??? My guy, if you think it will be anything even slightly near that price, I want to know what you’re smoking and how I can get some lol!
The announcement first talked about “streaming to your TV”. Receiving streaming and handling a controller don’t need much power.
No need to get this “expressive”.
I’m calling $700 US price. Valve’s the only company that can get into the console space with console prices since the real revenue source is the game store they run.
Edit: I slept on it and decided $750 is a safer bet, at least on the base model
The problem is that it makes less sense for them to sell at a loss than for example Xbox or Sony. It’s just a capable PC, corporations could buy hundreds or thousands and they wouldn’t make a cent off of game sales.
Why on earth would corporations buy this? Lol
Valve sells direct to consumer, not via retail.
They’re not gonna knowingly do a B2B sale.
A business that wanted to swipe them all would have to create or hire a scalper network of seemingly unafilliated buyers, and I am guessing this would be outside of the capability/risk tolerance level of … basically everyone right now, as the economy is imploding Hard.
You’d be surprised what a small team at a large corporation will do if it lets them complete a project within budget. The PlayStation 3 originally allowed users to install custom operating systems. A lot of groups, even the US military, bought thousands of them because they were inexpensive computers (sold at a loss) and used them for compute projects. Sony eventually stripped out the functionality in an update, presumably because they wanted to cut out this type of buyer.
I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised, I’ve worked at both functional and dysfunctional large corporations, either themselves tech corps or in the tech wing/department of other large orgs.
The PS3 is yes, a great example of making a versatile product that can appeal to many uh, kinds of markets, market demos.
What I am saying is that Valve is probably the most strategically competent tech company in existence, at least in the US, and that they would not willingly allow themselves to be tricked, at the level of long term, big boy corporate strategy.
They are the people who tend to set traps, not walk into them.
You’re talking to an ex-Corpo, lol.
Nonetheless, yes, the PS3 is a great example of what you can do with a product, but I’m trying to analyze the uh, 12D chess or whatever, the actual strategic conditions of the situation that would dictate whether or not it actually makes sense for Valve to do something similar with the Steam Machine.
Right now, no, it does not.
Valves whole thing is basically effectively stealing PC and Xbox gaming away from Microsoft.
It would be silly of them to allow their own tactics to be used against them in an unforced error.
I don’t think most corporations would be interested in buying a computer that doesn’t include a windows license. Unless they intend to use it for like… server stuff, but they’d be way better off buying like… actual server hardware… if only for the operating cost.
Even as a Linux desktop it would mostly just be interesting for devs and people doing relatively lightweight 3D design work (especially because it will take a while before other distros support it), I don’t see it competing against regular desktops.
Any company who depend on their employees having a decent GPU will likely want to be able to upgrade/reconfigure new orders at will, and will prefer a tower, and they will prefer the quick repairability of a tower. Those who don’t are increasingly ok with using mini PCs.
It’s not impossible, however, have you seen what corporations buy for their employees? Saving on upfront cost isn’t really part of the equation, it just has to say “dell” and/or “workstation” on it. A large company values long-term support and supply way more than what they’d save by getting a gaming machine.
And besides all that, it’s not like the best selling console of all time didn’t make money because a (objectively large) minority of owners only used it as a DVD player.
Yep reason why people can get some nice Thinkpads for cheap once warranty ends with businesses offloading them.
799 and 999 are my best guesses for the two versions
It’s not a console, it’s a general purpose PC
Uh the same could be said for Sony, Xbox and to a greater extent Nintendo but they’d rather make oodles of noodles money at every interaction.
They can’t sell this at a loss, or at least it would be incredibly risky. This is (intentionally) “just a PC”. It ships with SteamOS but you can of course install whatever you want, including windows. If it is (much) cheaper than a roughly equivalent normal PC, companies might just start buying them in bulk but obviously not generating the supporting sales needed.
I don’t think companies would be able to buy them in bulk, at least not directly.
Valve sells direct to consumer, no retail in the middle, they have their own online storefront (duh).
They’re not going to do a B2B mass order.
If a business wanted to try and stockpile them, for whatever reason, to turn into their own thing… or, to try to cause a price panic / supply shortage…
… they’d have to use/create basically a scalper network of essentially unaffiliated people.
I saw in a LTT video that they already claimed they will not be selling this at a loss because they want their hardware division to be self-sustaining.
If they sell it only through Steam as they do with the Steam Deck, companies wouldn’t really be able to buy them in bulk.
I heard at one point in time the fastest super computer in the world was a cluster of 900 ps3. It was cheaper then buying a single computer and in the beginning of the ps3 era you could easily format and run Linux on them.
I certainly remember PS2 consoles being used like that. The cell processor was impressive.
I ran ps2 Linux as my “desktop” for 6 months or so back in the day. It wasn’t capable of much compared to a general purpose computer at the time. Videos only played at almost full speed if you ran em in fbdev from a vterm with nothing else running. There was so little ram that using kde1 would run you into slow motion computing because of all the swapping. Window maker was ok, but running much of anything inside it would eat through that 32 megs of ram pretty quickly (I spent most of my time in vterms).
They did it with ps3 also although in research to make sure I was no mis-remembering I found out I was wrong. It was 33rd fastest super computer not #1.
