Where’s the evidence for that claim? There’s evidence of it happening in Israel and the US migrant concentration camps, but I haven’t seen any regarding China other than “trust me bro”
wdym, the proof is from this state approved article that I read which references another article which references another article which references another article which references a funny little book, which is really a collection of campfire stories, signed by weird guy with the initials “A.Z.”. Check and mate.
I’m disappointed that you are offering a low-quality source like the Financial Times for these serious accusations, and the shoddy reporting is apparent in the article itself:
In many areas, officials have told current and retired civil servants that their benefits will be taken away if they worship more than a few times per year, according to Hui human rights campaigner Ma Ju.
Which officals? Which current and retired civil servants? And why is the only source for this ‘a US-based campaigner for Chinese Muslim rights’? The lack of corroboration should be worrying. Relying on pseudonymous sources is usually not good reporting, either, as they have as many credentials as a common rumourer.
The conclusion is also confusing:
Two years later, these remarks were formalised into the government’s “Five-Year Plan on the Sinicisation of Islam”, which set out to standardise Chinese style in everything from Islamic attire to ceremonies and architecture, and called for the “establishment of an Islamic theology with Chinese characteristics”.
Hui Muslims like Mohammed still fear a possible future without Islam in China.
So, wait, Beijing wants to destroy Islam by… reforming it? I guess that that could be possible in some way, but the article does not explain how.
That being said, I don’t want to dismiss every claim in this article at face value, like restricting religion to adults (which, honestly, might be for the best), but if I believed that Beijing was trying to eradicate Islam then I would be dissatisfied with this article’s quality.
Although this does make me wonder if there are Chinese Muslims consenting to or even ordering these reformations. Perhaps @yogthos@lemmy.ml or @davel@lemmy.ml could inform me on this if they would be so gracious.
Look at the pictures. Literally look at them. Source does not matter.
Go look up any Youtube video and see how the article matches how the mosques look. Why did they all go from classic Islamic architecture to Han temples?
The political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang is very transparent. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
The west brainwashing people into extremism is an all time classic. ISIS is a Western creation primarily pushed through UAE and Saudi. Many Uyghurs are drawn into the sect. This is well known.
What China did however was a general Muslim crackdown. And this is not new. State Atheism is a CCP classic.
Your articles did not answer the simple question: why do all the Mosques suddenly look like Han temples? Please do not address any other point except the mosque exterior change.
Muslims living in China disagree with you as many testimonies in the videos I linked show. And all the Muslim countries disagree with you as well as do Muslims who have traveled to Xinjiang from these countries.
Your articles did not answer the simple question: why do all the Mosques suddenly look like Han temples? Please do not address any other point except the mosque exterior change.
There are over 24,400 mosques in China, and pretty sure vast majority of them do not in fact look like Han temples. I don’t know what the actual reason for change in the look of the mosques FT chose to parade is, but there isn’t even a serious suggestion that it’s representative of any sort of a general trend. It’s incredibly disappointing that somebody would accept very obvious propaganda completely uncritically.
And yet, we don’t see the U.S. running the same line on it as it does for China’s mosques… Wouldn’t it already be weird that the West would care about one group of Muslims but terrorize, demonize and berate every other? I wonder if their strategic location to the Belt and Road Initiative has anything to do with it, wink wink.
I’m not familiar with a “Han” religion, i always though China was not an ethnoreligious state. Also it took you just once sentence to move from the “Han” religion being pushed by state to the “state atheism”, can you stop for a second and reflect what prompted this nonsense after Yogthos dropped all the sources for you?
Han Buddhism has turned from religion to culture. Unless you believe that the dragon parades are done out of faith instead of culture. It is the main architectural style of Chinese history.
It is like Christmas in America. Most people celebrating it don’t even believe in Christianity. It’s just become a tradition
Giving maintenance and expanding mosques is a human rights violation now? I guess the Mexican government been genociding catholics, not one of the churches in my city looks like it did fifteen years ago.
People were happy about it too, brainwashed as they are.
No, but I’m sure if FT was trying to sell a war with the US they’d find a way to imply the new colors are cultural genocide or whatever.
I didn’t know Muslims had to have monolithic, generic buildings to the specifications of what westerners think a Mosque looks like. Were churches supposed to look gothic forever? Was making them baroque a human rights violation on christian Belgians?
I stg y’all are scraping the bottom of the barrel, twisting yourselves in knots to try to make the case that China is in any way remotely close to the many actual genocides the US and Europe have done and continue to do. It’s pure projection and it only facilitates the next US/European atrocity, as it did in Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
The redesigned mosques remind me of the Kaifeng synagogue, which is quite unlike any synagogue that I have ever seen. If you told me that it was a Confucian or Taoist monastery, I would have believed you.
In accordance with China’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
Your mountain of Western Imperialism Times evidence isn’t even about forced sterilization or birthrates. It looks like they spent a lot of money on that extraordinarily slick webpage, though. They must really care a lot about the plight of Xinjiang Muslims. Usually they’re not especially sympathetic to Muslims, but for the poor Uyghurs—for no particular reason—their hearts bleed 🤔
My bad I think I misread the reaction chain. The organ harvesting is obviously fake.
I don’t doubt that the FT has an ulterior motive for this investigation. However, the evidence with the pictures holds up. Even if all of the anonymous witnesses in the article are made up.
Forced sterilisation says otherwise.
Where’s the evidence for that claim? There’s evidence of it happening in Israel and the US migrant concentration camps, but I haven’t seen any regarding China other than “trust me bro”
wdym, the proof is from this state approved article that I read which references another article which references another article which references another article which references a funny little book, which is really a collection of campfire stories, signed by weird guy with the initials “A.Z.”. Check and mate.
https://ig.ft.com/china-mosques/
It also matches up with every Youtube video of a person visiting Xinjiang and the mosques are all looking like this.
I’m disappointed that you are offering a low-quality source like the Financial Times for these serious accusations, and the shoddy reporting is apparent in the article itself:
Which officals? Which current and retired civil servants? And why is the only source for this ‘a US-based campaigner for Chinese Muslim rights’? The lack of corroboration should be worrying. Relying on pseudonymous sources is usually not good reporting, either, as they have as many credentials as a common rumourer.
The conclusion is also confusing:
So, wait, Beijing wants to destroy Islam by… reforming it? I guess that that could be possible in some way, but the article does not explain how.
That being said, I don’t want to dismiss every claim in this article at face value, like restricting religion to adults (which, honestly, might be for the best), but if I believed that Beijing was trying to eradicate Islam then I would be dissatisfied with this article’s quality.
Although this does make me wonder if there are Chinese Muslims consenting to or even ordering these reformations. Perhaps @yogthos@lemmy.ml or @davel@lemmy.ml could inform me on this if they would be so gracious.
Look at the pictures. Literally look at them. Source does not matter.
Go look up any Youtube video and see how the article matches how the mosques look. Why did they all go from classic Islamic architecture to Han temples?
There are also videos of Uyghurs protesting this https://youtu.be/Z7nVLuOM1D8
Yes, the source very much does matter because sources can distort the truth, lie by omission, and create a narrative that’s completely at odds with reality. Contrast this with reporting from an actual Muslim country https://www.thejakartapost.com/academia/2018/09/25/xinjiang-what-a-wonderful-place.html
Even western media reports on occasion that Xinjiang imams defend China against U.S. criticism
https://web.archive.org/web/20210513115748/https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-against-u-s-criticism-1.5425967
And of course, all the Muslim majority countries have been supporting China against western allegations
Here’s another report from Italy of all places https://idi-international.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/New-Report.pdf
Here’s what a reporter from Pakistan who actually visited Xinjiang had to say https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/
Here are some very different videos of Uyghurs for you https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbOIKUddMBtp0_xEFqn4zey48kkgJq5w
The political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang is very transparent. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/
Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html
The west brainwashing people into extremism is an all time classic. ISIS is a Western creation primarily pushed through UAE and Saudi. Many Uyghurs are drawn into the sect. This is well known.
What China did however was a general Muslim crackdown. And this is not new. State Atheism is a CCP classic.
Your articles did not answer the simple question: why do all the Mosques suddenly look like Han temples? Please do not address any other point except the mosque exterior change.
Your evidence of a general Muslim crackdown is exterior cosmetic changes to some mosques which were cherry-picked by western media?
So atheist China is making religious temples look like other religious temples? Pick a lane.
I think that this theory comes from the West’s Han supremacy narrative (projection, much?). But again, even NATOpedia has counterexamples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China.
I can’t read Chinese but is this translation not accurate?
https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/islamsinifcationplan/
Muslims living in China disagree with you as many testimonies in the videos I linked show. And all the Muslim countries disagree with you as well as do Muslims who have traveled to Xinjiang from these countries.
There are over 24,400 mosques in China, and pretty sure vast majority of them do not in fact look like Han temples. I don’t know what the actual reason for change in the look of the mosques FT chose to parade is, but there isn’t even a serious suggestion that it’s representative of any sort of a general trend. It’s incredibly disappointing that somebody would accept very obvious propaganda completely uncritically.
Even the Kaaba didn’t look the same as it did when it was first constructed thousands of years ago:
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1895886/saudi-arabia
And yet, we don’t see the U.S. running the same line on it as it does for China’s mosques… Wouldn’t it already be weird that the West would care about one group of Muslims but terrorize, demonize and berate every other? I wonder if their strategic location to the Belt and Road Initiative has anything to do with it, wink wink.
I’m not familiar with a “Han” religion, i always though China was not an ethnoreligious state. Also it took you just once sentence to move from the “Han” religion being pushed by state to the “state atheism”, can you stop for a second and reflect what prompted this nonsense after Yogthos dropped all the sources for you?
Han Buddhism has turned from religion to culture. Unless you believe that the dragon parades are done out of faith instead of culture. It is the main architectural style of Chinese history.
It is like Christmas in America. Most people celebrating it don’t even believe in Christianity. It’s just become a tradition
Read also the Chinese governments explanation:
https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/islamsinifcationplan/
Giving maintenance and expanding mosques is a human rights violation now? I guess the Mexican government been genociding catholics, not one of the churches in my city looks like it did fifteen years ago.
People were happy about it too, brainwashed as they are.
Did they change the churches into Mayan temples?
Also notice how I did not use the word genocide.
No, but I’m sure if FT was trying to sell a war with the US they’d find a way to imply the new colors are cultural genocide or whatever.
I didn’t know Muslims had to have monolithic, generic buildings to the specifications of what westerners think a Mosque looks like. Were churches supposed to look gothic forever? Was making them baroque a human rights violation on christian Belgians?
I stg y’all are scraping the bottom of the barrel, twisting yourselves in knots to try to make the case that China is in any way remotely close to the many actual genocides the US and Europe have done and continue to do. It’s pure projection and it only facilitates the next US/European atrocity, as it did in Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
The redesigned mosques remind me of the Kaifeng synagogue, which is quite unlike any synagogue that I have ever seen. If you told me that it was a Confucian or Taoist monastery, I would have believed you.
This is the same reasoning NATO lovers use to discredit anything from TheGrayzone etc.
Who does the reporting is irrelevant. Nor who pays them. What matters is whether the evidence checks out.
It’s a literal Chinese 5 year plan by the CCP. Chinese law. https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/islamsinifcationplan
Maybe you should read the FT article instead of only looking at the site link.
🤷 Not every YouTube video. Maybe every YouTube video that the algorithm shows you.
I opened your first link and it is a Han style temple…
Second link as well
Third link not about mosques
Fourth link Han style too…
Fifth is not! But it looks more like an office building
Sixth is a LOT of Han style mosques.
Seventh has a dome!
Eighth has dome as well!
For which there is no evidence. In fact the opposite happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China#Affirmative_action_policies
There are mountains of evidence. Most obviously the Chinese government tearing down all mosques minarets and making them look like Chinese temples.
https://ig.ft.com/china-mosques/
I was responding to:
Your mountain of Western Imperialism Times evidence isn’t even about forced sterilization or birthrates. It looks like they spent a lot of money on that extraordinarily slick webpage, though. They must really care a lot about the plight of Xinjiang Muslims. Usually they’re not especially sympathetic to Muslims, but for the poor Uyghurs—for no particular reason—their hearts bleed 🤔
My bad I think I misread the reaction chain. The organ harvesting is obviously fake.
I don’t doubt that the FT has an ulterior motive for this investigation. However, the evidence with the pictures holds up. Even if all of the anonymous witnesses in the article are made up.
Especially when linked with the Sinifaction plan of Islam as pointed out by the article. https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/islamsinifcationplan/
Projection!