So fucking no. You people do not get another ‘vote blue no matter who’ from me. Democrats are the opposition party to progressive policy. Its become crystal clear to me that if i want progressive policy, democrats must first be brought to heel, or destroyed. Only then can republicans be stopped.
You do this by hijacking the party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. Trying to start you own thing from scratch is so obviously doomed failure that you and all your ideas will remain irrelevant.
You can draw a line from the Tories and Whigs at the USA’s founding to the modern day Republican and Democrat parties.
They didn’t just spring from the ether, they were birthed from internal party politics. Why do you think the most progressive people we have in our Congress are Democrats or, in cases like the incredibly rare independent like Bernie, are working with the Dems?
It’s not a fluke. Being surprised that sitting on your hands and pouting that the party won’t pay attention to a person who won’t do anything to help them win is crazy.
What’s your pitch? “hey as someone who will do literally nothing to improve your odds of being elected you should pay attention to me!”. No, it doesn’t work like that.
My pitch if you had been watching, and my whole reason for being here in the first place was the comment that, 100 days into a trump presidency still blames the large group of progressive disenfranchised voters for the fall of democracy. These voters are not agents of political power beyond who they vote for. If they did not vote for democrats, that is because of a deficiency in the democratic platform. The democrats do not get to be a progressive platform by default because they are the party of damage mitigation. They are by all intense and purposes, a right wing political party who’s demonstrated position is on passing conservatives policies that are more temperate then the republicans. they post lip service to progressive values when it comes time to vote, and then is thrown away when it comes time to act.
Bro, I get it, but I’m a pragmatist more than an idealist. I hate our electoral system with a fiery passion too. I’m just operating in reality and trying to get the least bad outcome we can with what we have.
If you are a pragmatist, then you must see that the current pattern of damage mitigation has ratcheted us into a worse and worse position. Before the last election “now is not the time! We can talk about reform after we stop trump” and i with great discomfort obliged. Well now it’s time, as apparently we are never going to move on from blaming the scape-goat and also full on refuse to acknowledge the democrats fault. If There will never be an appropriate time to deal with the duplicitous party, then it might as well as be now.
A pragmatist should see the end of the path this leads to and change accordingly knowing that the pragmatic approach means possible pain involved. To me voting blue no matter who is surrendering decision making with the hope that against all evidence the Democratic Party will change once they get everything they want. That to me seems to be an idealist.
They’re not. Capital might have found (or thought they found) a way to leverage and control Trump, but they didn’t want him in the first place. He took over anyways. The reasons for this many, but it shows that the path is available, even if difficult. The idea that you’re going to break the two party system from outside of it it without a total societal collapse at this point is pure fantasy.
Its more absurd that you think that you can change a corrupt party from within. And that you are willing to do the same thing that has failed every time and expecting different results. If you think trump getting worse will change that calculus for the better, you are mistaken, democrats are somehow losing footing by being obviously feckless, and actively preventing what you hope for. The voters would be confused you see. It the mandate of the people. We got to reach out to the republicans, blah blah blah
What described is a plan that as worked in the past. What you’ve laid out is nothing. Screaming at voters to nice you from the sidelines while you screech about the evils of capitalism as achieved what exactly? You have literally no political relevance.
I am not the ones screaming at voters. I am not the one who blames an entire group of disenfranchised progressive voters whom democrats told to get fucked, even when the math didn’t shake out.
‘Hey guys, you know how the Republican party turned extreme due to the oligarchs funding a think tank managed to use their institutional power and wealth to organize the installation of agents in positions of power in order accelerate their already authoritarian direction? Well what if we do the same! But against the democrats rightward momentum…. And without vast wealth… or power… or direction. And at the local scale…”
We both agree that democrat leaders do not want change and that requires something to be done to fix it. I don’t believe in your plan to use the same mechanism for change completely opposite the conditions in which it succeeded only in accelerating their rightward March.
This reeks of a highschool/college student with strong ideals and very little real world experience. Good luck destroying the democratic party, the Republicans have been trying for decades.
They seem very good at it recently, though it’s not hard to miss when literally every thing is a target. Good luck getting corruption to willingly give up power.
You do this by hijacking the party the way Trump hijacked the GOP. Trying to start you own thing from scratch is so obviously doomed failure that you and all your ideas will remain irrelevant.
Nope, because the same pressures that caused that, are the same pressures that caused the democrats to be an issue in the first place.
You’re a MAGA scant. Fuck off pretending otherwise.
If you were unwilling to debate you should have just said so to your self and and remained silent.
You can draw a line from the Tories and Whigs at the USA’s founding to the modern day Republican and Democrat parties.
They didn’t just spring from the ether, they were birthed from internal party politics. Why do you think the most progressive people we have in our Congress are Democrats or, in cases like the incredibly rare independent like Bernie, are working with the Dems?
It’s not a fluke. Being surprised that sitting on your hands and pouting that the party won’t pay attention to a person who won’t do anything to help them win is crazy.
What’s your pitch? “hey as someone who will do literally nothing to improve your odds of being elected you should pay attention to me!”. No, it doesn’t work like that.
My pitch if you had been watching, and my whole reason for being here in the first place was the comment that, 100 days into a trump presidency still blames the large group of progressive disenfranchised voters for the fall of democracy. These voters are not agents of political power beyond who they vote for. If they did not vote for democrats, that is because of a deficiency in the democratic platform. The democrats do not get to be a progressive platform by default because they are the party of damage mitigation. They are by all intense and purposes, a right wing political party who’s demonstrated position is on passing conservatives policies that are more temperate then the republicans. they post lip service to progressive values when it comes time to vote, and then is thrown away when it comes time to act.
They want my vote, they can act like it.
Bro, I get it, but I’m a pragmatist more than an idealist. I hate our electoral system with a fiery passion too. I’m just operating in reality and trying to get the least bad outcome we can with what we have.
If you are a pragmatist, then you must see that the current pattern of damage mitigation has ratcheted us into a worse and worse position. Before the last election “now is not the time! We can talk about reform after we stop trump” and i with great discomfort obliged. Well now it’s time, as apparently we are never going to move on from blaming the scape-goat and also full on refuse to acknowledge the democrats fault. If There will never be an appropriate time to deal with the duplicitous party, then it might as well as be now.
A pragmatist should see the end of the path this leads to and change accordingly knowing that the pragmatic approach means possible pain involved. To me voting blue no matter who is surrendering decision making with the hope that against all evidence the Democratic Party will change once they get everything they want. That to me seems to be an idealist.
Right enjoy the MAGA boot leather.
They’re not. Capital might have found (or thought they found) a way to leverage and control Trump, but they didn’t want him in the first place. He took over anyways. The reasons for this many, but it shows that the path is available, even if difficult. The idea that you’re going to break the two party system from outside of it it without a total societal collapse at this point is pure fantasy.
Its more absurd that you think that you can change a corrupt party from within. And that you are willing to do the same thing that has failed every time and expecting different results. If you think trump getting worse will change that calculus for the better, you are mistaken, democrats are somehow losing footing by being obviously feckless, and actively preventing what you hope for. The voters would be confused you see. It the mandate of the people. We got to reach out to the republicans, blah blah blah
What described is a plan that as worked in the past. What you’ve laid out is nothing. Screaming at voters to nice you from the sidelines while you screech about the evils of capitalism as achieved what exactly? You have literally no political relevance.
I am not the ones screaming at voters. I am not the one who blames an entire group of disenfranchised progressive voters whom democrats told to get fucked, even when the math didn’t shake out.
‘Hey guys, you know how the Republican party turned extreme due to the oligarchs funding a think tank managed to use their institutional power and wealth to organize the installation of agents in positions of power in order accelerate their already authoritarian direction? Well what if we do the same! But against the democrats rightward momentum…. And without vast wealth… or power… or direction. And at the local scale…”
We both agree that democrat leaders do not want change and that requires something to be done to fix it. I don’t believe in your plan to use the same mechanism for change completely opposite the conditions in which it succeeded only in accelerating their rightward March.
This reeks of a highschool/college student with strong ideals and very little real world experience. Good luck destroying the democratic party, the Republicans have been trying for decades.
They seem very good at it recently, though it’s not hard to miss when literally every thing is a target. Good luck getting corruption to willingly give up power.