In light of plans to introduce this policy and the particular circumstances surrounding some boxers that competed at the Paris 2024 Olympic Games, World Boxing has written to the Algerian Boxing Federation to inform it that Imane Khelif will not be allowed to participate in the female category at the Eindhoven Box Cup or any World Boxing event until Imane Khelif undergoes sex testing.

  • Snowclone@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    171
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    edit-2
    3 days ago

    Olympics testing sex means they will be testing women, and never men, it means they’ll come up with a test that requires different representatives of different competing nations to agree a woman doesn’t technically qualify as a woman despite her fully functioning uterus, and again they’ll be invasive and humiliating and poor countries will have twice or more disqualified athletes, they will go after women of color twice as hard, and the more extreme countries they send these women back to live in will treat these women horrifyingly bad.

    • ALilOff@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      3 days ago

      In a way they do testing on men in sports all the time. They test for testosterone levels for one to see if the athlete is not utilizing Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs).

      But I also haven’t read the article on the methodology they will be going to be utilizing.

    • Ice@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      31
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      Generally because the differences in male and female biology mean that ftm athletes are coming in at a disadvantage and only risk end up being hurt themselves by male athletes who generally have them at a disadvantage. Mtf athletes however, due to the aspects of male physiology that remain, have a higher likelihood of having an advantage over female athletes and also posing a danger to the other athletes. This is generally why most womens categories were introduced in the first place (female physical disadvantage).

      Especially in martial arts and combat sports like boxing, which are already inherently dangerous, the physical safety of the athletes and protecting them must come above more ephemeral goals such as inclusion in my view.

      As it stands with current day medical technology, there are limits to how close a transitioning individual can be changed to resemble the opposing gender.

      Given how deep the differences are physiologically between the sexes with things such as lyonization I’m not entirely sure that it will ever be possible to fully transition a person outside of weird and ethically questionable future tech such as vat-growing a genetically modified clone and somehow transferring the consciousness of the person.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        44
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        3 days ago

        There are several cases in sports already where people who are born women and have a female phenotype and genotype, but have naturally higher levels of testosterone, who have been banned from competition.

        The message they use is the they’re “protecting women” but it isn’t actually the goal. Often there aren’t any cases of transgender athletes outperforming their cis opponents, yet they still try to create these rules. It’s frequently actively harmful to many cisgendered women.

        The problem with all of this is the “basic biology” crowd never learn that biology is really fucking complex. What they learn in grade school is not the totality of biology, yet they assume they must be experts and force their very limited and wrong views on other people. It’s bad and harmful and siding with them makes them feel all the more justified in their crusade of bullshit and misinformation.

        • Ice@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          16
          ·
          3 days ago

          I’m not particularly familiar with the politics of sports, nor am I particularly interested - as such I won’t comment on what their goals are. I am, however, very familiar with human biology and healthcare. 5 yrs of secondary + tertiary education familiar in addition to several years of work experience. You’ll unfortunately have to take my word for that. I don’t intend to dox myself with documentation.

          With my outlook on the topic, it doesn’t seem like a “crusade of bullshit and misinformation”. Headline news, physiology and most importantly “data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world” - as they claim. I don’t have time to personally look into that (sucks to have a life amirite) but am inclined to trust that they care for the athletes and have done due diligence. If you (or anyone else for that matter!) has material that disputes the validity of their work do feel free to link it in a reply. I and others I’m sure would be interested in reading such material.

          Thanks.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            20
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            3 days ago

            Headline news, physiology and most importantly “data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world” - as they claim. I don’t have time to personally look into that (sucks to have a life amirite) but am inclined to trust that they care for the athletes and have done due diligence.

            Here’s the issue we have: you trust them because they put out a press release with this claim. I don’t, because it’s a press release. You want others to prove them wrong instead of needing them to prove they’re right.

            I’m sure there’s some truth to the statement, but did they actively look at the points made by the opposition and weigh it all? There’s no claim for this here even, and even if there were I wouldn’t trust it implicitly. To be scientific you need to actively try to disprove your assumptions. If they still hold then cool, but you have to be critical.

            At the end of the day, this is a business. They’re trying to make money. This is something that I’ll never just give my trust to. If they prove their claims then fine, but I’m going to assume all decisions are business decisions first, not the best decision for all athletes necessarily.

      • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        3 days ago

        What are you talking about? This is not about transgender at all. For those you could require a birth certificate. This is targeting women that are born as girls but, due to genetic anomalies, do not appear as such on genetic tests. Many (most?) would never discover the genetic anomaly during their lifetime.

        • Ice@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          3 days ago

          At least from what I’ve read previously, these rules changes are primarily related to incidents where female athletes have been severely injured when competing against mtf athletes - but it’s long been a contentious issue. As is often the case, when rules are changed/implemented they end up being broad and catching others in the crossfire.

          It’s unfortunate that it’s ended up being necessary. However, there are many professions where people can’t work due to genetics or health (eyesight, cardiac issues etc.) and athletics in general is already a field highly affected by genetics. C’est la vie…

          • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 days ago

            For Christmas’s sake, boxing is a combat sport. The whole point of combat sports is to incapacitate your opponent via violent means. Do you actually think safety is the real concern here? If it was, you’d think the focus would be on better equipment, rule changes, rule enforcement, etc., not the (largely irrelevant) existence of a Y chromosome in an athlete’s genome.

          • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            3 days ago

            Again, mtf or any transgender issue can be solved with birth certificates. It doesn’t require genetic testing. Genetic testing is targeted at humans that according to all our traditional laws and practices are treated as female, yet may potentially be banned from female sports.

            • Ice@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              3 days ago

              Some countries permit people to have the gender on their birth certificate changed after transition, which unfortunately renders your suggestion moot. Also from the wording in the article I think the testing will be applied to male athletes also.

              Testing for chromosomes in this day and age is also quite simple and rather cheap. The main issue really is how privacy is handled. Personally I wouldn’t want to have to be subjected to a gene test for a job.

        • Ice@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          3 days ago

          …from the article

          … to ensure the safety of all participants and deliver a competitive level playing field for men and women.

          …which has examined data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world.

          This decision reflects concerns over the safety and wellbeing of all boxers, including Imane Khelif, and aims to protect the mental and physical health of all participants…

          …and another citation for good measure.