In light of plans to introduce this policy and the particular circumstances surrounding some boxers that competed at the Paris 2024 Olympic Games, World Boxing has written to the Algerian Boxing Federation to inform it that Imane Khelif will not be allowed to participate in the female category at the Eindhoven Box Cup or any World Boxing event until Imane Khelif undergoes sex testing.
World Boxing has written to the Algerian Boxing Federation to inform it that Imane Khelif will not be allowed to participate in the female category at the Eindhoven Box Cup or any World Boxing event until Imane Khelif undergoes sex testing.
Phew, that was close, they almost had to pick a pronoun.
Nice; how much sex do they need to have to pass the test?
at least fifty thrusts
It isn’t about the quantity. Its about the quality.
They’re gonna discover the same thing they did in the Olympics that made them stop testing.
It was making people uncomfortable how many of them had the wrong sex assigned at birth.
Women and men who had lived their entire lives as one sex realized they actually had the chromosomes for the opposite sex.
There were stages and layers of sex testing within Olympics history, and every time they got mis-classifications they weren’t expecting.
We figured out by the 50s that a gender binary was not imperically proveable. Too many variables that varied seperate from each other and often conflicted with each other.
The irony if transphobia founders over cis gender dysphoria will be breathtaking.
What? Really? Didnt know this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_verification_and_intersex_athletes_at_the_Olympic_Games
The history of sex testing for sports is really interesting, for me it’s interesting because despite almost 100 years of the practice not a single “male imposter” has ever been found.
And I was mistaken. Like another comment on this post says they just stopped testing in men’s sports.
That is really interesting
So much pointless and cruel bullshit over fucking sport, and one of the stupidest sports no less.
Put a male In with female boxing and see how fair the match ends. It’s not about cruelty it’s about basic muscular differences between sexes.
I’d rather fight Tate than Khelif, that’s for sure. One of the two knows how to move, the other one knows how to be angry.
Your feelings aside this is insane. Tate was a 4x world kickboxing champion at light heavyweight. He’d demolish you with one hand tied behind his back
Tate’s record was heavily inflated and after he got one that looked good he stopped fighting because it had served its purpose, and he wasn’t a world champion of anything certified by an organization that actually means anything
I’m not saying you’re wrong necessarily, but one of these people just came off winning an Olympic medal and the other basically won one title and retired
They’re specifically targeting Imane Khelif, a female in female boxing.
yikes I cannot believe your name 😬 you’re basically spouting off right wing anti trans propaganda.
I’d suggest you learn a bit more about transitioning, trans women are not just dudes in dresses. and medical transition destroys theuscle gains you get from being a dude.
I can tell you this first hand, I went from jacked dude bro to not even being able to open a jar.i have to asky bf these days LMAO. by the way, professional women athletes can comfortably destroy any random guy, it’s honestly insulting to have this conversation as if it’s anything but more senseless rage bait to paint targets on our backs.
nobody understands just what transitioningeams or what it does, how sex works
how cis women can literally have testosterone just like a cis guy…like it’s all just hate
also I guarantee moone says shit about trans men in male sports it’s literally just hate. if they really cared about fairness they’d do testing for hormone levels and weight differences and class everyone fairly regardless of sex lol.
I sincerely can’t wait for all the broken brains after this Argentinian chiccs test results come back. it’s so fucking cruel what they are saying about her. to suggest she is trans just. because she makes a bunch of weak minded people feel insecure in their understandings of how biology works lol
bein trans is not allowed in Argentina, she’s just masculine cis woman, and I’m sure these cronies know this, they just want to take every opportunity to pass judgement on women specifically under some virtue signalling bullshit
they don’t care about fairness if they did Imsurance companies wouldn’t happily deny a cancer victim. they wouldn’t get off on struggling students whoe graduated sid everything right and still end up homeless
it’s all just silly imo, we’re so pathetic as a species sometimes it makese sad
Why wouldn’t they then measure testosterone levels instead? What if a trans man fights a woman, because he has a vagina? Is that a fair fight?
Regardless of where you stand on this issue one thing is fact. Republicans love this issue because it wins them elections over and over and will continue well into the future. Think your going to vote Trumps and his kind out of politics while fighting hard on this issue? People are terrified to vote Democrat just on this and the bathroom points alone. Gay rights/acceptance have come very far in my lifetime, and that is awesome but we are on the edge of losing ALL of those hard won fights while facing full on fascism world over if we don’t strategically/temporarily retreat on ‘some’ issues until we have power and minds again. Take the wins and fight another day, the masses are too divided over this issue at this point in history thus causing weakened voting power blocs while the right is strongly united. I know for a fact there are many rightwing plants everywhere pretending to be left leaning using these talking points to divide us. A smart person picks when, where and how they fight, if winning is the goal.
That’s the same thing they said about gay rights in the 90’s though
Yeh, it was this and not shrieking about immigrants or the economy.
Get a clue
Meanwhile in the near future: world boxing to end needless sex testing to save costs.
To check whether they’ve had it recently or just ever?
The international rise of the Cult of Naturalism and the growing prevalence of their ur-eugenics pseudoscience is horrifying to watch. Like so many other actively harmful ideologies and policies I don’t see any non-violent solutions.
Looks like I need to post this again.
That’s a nice infographic, but must we not draw a vertical line somewhere on that spectrum to say what is allowed in women’s sport? It seems unreasonable to allow everything on the spectrum as women’s sports would be dominated by people from the male end of the spectrum.
Dang. It’s almost like determining someone’s sex is hard to do.
Alpha bros gonna be real upset that the Typical biological male is a the pink end of the spectrum 😂
Do you have a higher res copy that isn’t so difficult to read?
I don’t, but I can provide an article with the infographic included.
This might work:
Thanks for sharing. I never seen it before.
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Just because the words are too big for you to understand doesn’t mean what they’re describing isn’t real.
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There is no idea to buy. Those are observed conditions on real bodies
Because numerous people around the world have been using cutting edge research for decades to study these things, observing their effects in actual people, means that I honestly don’t give a fuck if you “buy the idea”. Your feelings, opinions, and armchair assessments on this topic are worthless.
When modern scientists accept new understandings of things that is the science
We’re not in the 50s anymore, we now understand more than we did then.
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What specific element is pseudoscience?
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So, hormones don’t exist?
Intersex people don’t exist?
Trans people don’t exist?
And what, we’re all either 100% male or 100% female and there is never a grey area in biology?Don’t make the conscious decision to remain ignorant, you’re keeping yourself back.
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Yeah but that’s why they’re beliefs, and not science
stfu
So, you are arguing that SRY inactivation does not occur?
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Swyer means an XY female, as you are agreeing to now.
What is your definition for female?
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Athletes that are deemed to be male at birth, as evidenced by the presence of Y chromosome genetic material (the SRY gene) or with a difference of sexual development (DSD) where male androgenization occurs, will be eligible to compete in the male category.
Athletes that are deemed to be female at birth, as evidenced by the presence of XX chromosomes or the absence of Y chromosome genetic material (the SRY gene) or with a DSD where male androgenization does not occur, will be eligible to compete in the female category.
Oh wow. What’s social construction? *points*
Olympics testing sex means they will be testing women, and never men, it means they’ll come up with a test that requires different representatives of different competing nations to agree a woman doesn’t technically qualify as a woman despite her fully functioning uterus, and again they’ll be invasive and humiliating and poor countries will have twice or more disqualified athletes, they will go after women of color twice as hard, and the more extreme countries they send these women back to live in will treat these women horrifyingly bad.
In a way they do testing on men in sports all the time. They test for testosterone levels for one to see if the athlete is not utilizing Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs).
But I also haven’t read the article on the methodology they will be going to be utilizing.
Because women don’t want to become men so often. It’s mostly men identifying as a woman for some reason and yelling about their right to be a woman.
Source?
No both happen, people just have a much bigger problem when an assigned man transitions to woman.
Generally because the differences in male and female biology mean that ftm athletes are coming in at a disadvantage and only risk end up being hurt themselves by male athletes who generally have them at a disadvantage. Mtf athletes however, due to the aspects of male physiology that remain, have a higher likelihood of having an advantage over female athletes and also posing a danger to the other athletes. This is generally why most womens categories were introduced in the first place (female physical disadvantage).
Especially in martial arts and combat sports like boxing, which are already inherently dangerous, the physical safety of the athletes and protecting them must come above more ephemeral goals such as inclusion in my view.
As it stands with current day medical technology, there are limits to how close a transitioning individual can be changed to resemble the opposing gender.
Given how deep the differences are physiologically between the sexes with things such as lyonization I’m not entirely sure that it will ever be possible to fully transition a person outside of weird and ethically questionable future tech such as vat-growing a genetically modified clone and somehow transferring the consciousness of the person.
There are several cases in sports already where people who are born women and have a female phenotype and genotype, but have naturally higher levels of testosterone, who have been banned from competition.
The message they use is the they’re “protecting women” but it isn’t actually the goal. Often there aren’t any cases of transgender athletes outperforming their cis opponents, yet they still try to create these rules. It’s frequently actively harmful to many cisgendered women.
The problem with all of this is the “basic biology” crowd never learn that biology is really fucking complex. What they learn in grade school is not the totality of biology, yet they assume they must be experts and force their very limited and wrong views on other people. It’s bad and harmful and siding with them makes them feel all the more justified in their crusade of bullshit and misinformation.
I’m not particularly familiar with the politics of sports, nor am I particularly interested - as such I won’t comment on what their goals are. I am, however, very familiar with human biology and healthcare. 5 yrs of secondary + tertiary education familiar in addition to several years of work experience. You’ll unfortunately have to take my word for that. I don’t intend to dox myself with documentation.
With my outlook on the topic, it doesn’t seem like a “crusade of bullshit and misinformation”. Headline news, physiology and most importantly “data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world” - as they claim. I don’t have time to personally look into that (sucks to have a life amirite) but am inclined to trust that they care for the athletes and have done due diligence. If you (or anyone else for that matter!) has material that disputes the validity of their work do feel free to link it in a reply. I and others I’m sure would be interested in reading such material.
Thanks.
Headline news, physiology and most importantly “data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world” - as they claim. I don’t have time to personally look into that (sucks to have a life amirite) but am inclined to trust that they care for the athletes and have done due diligence.
Here’s the issue we have: you trust them because they put out a press release with this claim. I don’t, because it’s a press release. You want others to prove them wrong instead of needing them to prove they’re right.
I’m sure there’s some truth to the statement, but did they actively look at the points made by the opposition and weigh it all? There’s no claim for this here even, and even if there were I wouldn’t trust it implicitly. To be scientific you need to actively try to disprove your assumptions. If they still hold then cool, but you have to be critical.
At the end of the day, this is a business. They’re trying to make money. This is something that I’ll never just give my trust to. If they prove their claims then fine, but I’m going to assume all decisions are business decisions first, not the best decision for all athletes necessarily.
What are you talking about? This is not about transgender at all. For those you could require a birth certificate. This is targeting women that are born as girls but, due to genetic anomalies, do not appear as such on genetic tests. Many (most?) would never discover the genetic anomaly during their lifetime.
At least from what I’ve read previously, these rules changes are primarily related to incidents where female athletes have been severely injured when competing against mtf athletes - but it’s long been a contentious issue. As is often the case, when rules are changed/implemented they end up being broad and catching others in the crossfire.
It’s unfortunate that it’s ended up being necessary. However, there are many professions where people can’t work due to genetics or health (eyesight, cardiac issues etc.) and athletics in general is already a field highly affected by genetics. C’est la vie…
Again, mtf or any transgender issue can be solved with birth certificates. It doesn’t require genetic testing. Genetic testing is targeted at humans that according to all our traditional laws and practices are treated as female, yet may potentially be banned from female sports.
Some countries permit people to have the gender on their birth certificate changed after transition, which unfortunately renders your suggestion moot. Also from the wording in the article I think the testing will be applied to male athletes also.
Testing for chromosomes in this day and age is also quite simple and rather cheap. The main issue really is how privacy is handled. Personally I wouldn’t want to have to be subjected to a gene test for a job.
[citation needed]
…from the article
… to ensure the safety of all participants and deliver a competitive level playing field for men and women.
…which has examined data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world.
This decision reflects concerns over the safety and wellbeing of all boxers, including Imane Khelif, and aims to protect the mental and physical health of all participants…
…and another citation for good measure.
That’s just World Boxing’s statement, it’s not actually substantiating any of their claims.
I had a sex test done recently. The results were negative.
“THERE WAS SHRINKAGE!”
Genitalia: unremarkable
Hold on. Wait a minute.
It’s cold and I need fluffing.
The only kind of sex testing I am okay with, is making sure condoms and sex toys work properly by actually using them on myself.
Alright, this one still fucks! Congratulations! Noe get out there and punch somebody!
Should I be wearing a condom on my fist when I punch Nazis? I don’t wanna catch whatever they have…
Brass knuckles are ribbed for your pleasure.
Sex testing should be allowed but any time someone calls for sex testing and gets it incorrect the boxer 2should get one good punch in on them
Unlikely, but it would be hilarious if some self-proclaimed alpha male found out the hard way that he is in fact intersex.
And those tiny number of edges cases need to be highlighted to show it does indeed happen. With biology, there is rarely ever truely binary. Biology is too mushy.
