There is a hunger for bold, transformative politics in the United States right now. Zohran Mamdani shows how the Left can run on a principled, disciplined message that speaks to voters’ lived concerns — and win.
That’s what’s fun about the whole establishment coming out swinging against him - he just won the primary. He’s not even elected yet, and they are losing their shit.
(also, didn’t notice until after posting that you’d posted 2 days ago - sorry for the necro post!)
If Cuomo runs 3rd party and the Dem establishment supports him, I’m going to fling that back at anyone who tells me to not vote 3rd party in a presidential election, lol.
I’m fully expecting them to. The Dem leadership supporting an ACTUAL leftist is only SLIGHTLY more likely than them going full fascist and endorsing Curtis Sliwa…
Last I heard, which I think was just hours old, is he’s still considering running as an independent. He hasn’t decided yet. I guess he’s waiting to see how much corporations will pay him?
You’re going to fling that a high-profile and well-recognized (even amongst non-politically engaged voters) organization gave recognition and resources to a third party in a local (not even gubernatorial but) mayoral election as a counter defense for voting for a third party in a presidential election?
I mean, I’m not even arguing one way or the other. When people argue against voting for a third party in a presidential election, it’s on the basis that the candidate has absolutely no shot at winning and, at best, will split the vote.
It has nothing to do with liking or not liking hypocrisy; the basis of their argument is entirely about whether a strategy is viable, not whether they felt good about the decision.
I assumed that the OP was actually trying to poke holes in the argument but arguing that the Democratic party has backed a third-party candidate in a local election doesn’t negate any of the actual points regarding dissuading voting for a third-party candidate who is without the same resources and does not have the same kind of outreach (such as appearing in debates, etc.) in a presidential election. That’s why, notably, OP had to specify a presidential election: people don’t, generally, argue against voting for third parties at the local level because the visibility of those candidates winning is entirely different.
Do you get what I mean? It wholly doesn’t engage with the actual reasoning or evidence for the argument so it…wouldn’t mean anything, if you did try to use it as a rebuttal.
I get that you’re talking out of your ass making excuses and trying to justify random decisions you’ve made to kiss copirate dems asses, why you repeat the corporate media talking points I can’t explain but you clearly are just a parrot and not thinking it through
justify random decisions you’ve made to kiss copirate dems asses
Damn; that’s…really impressive to’ve gleaned all of this insight about my past decisions on a comment that has mentioned none of my past decisions. You’ve got nothing on Miss Cleo.
Would you care to explain what corporate media talking points I’m reiterating?
Also, I’ve not been remotely as aggressive or attacking to anyone here; you’re acting like I’m encouraging people to vote for Cuomo or Adams. I have not given this level of hostility or assumption of poor character out the gate like this, remotely.
It seems I’m not able to break down the core basics of the underlying mechanics well enough so we’ll probably have to end the conversation but, just in case I’m still being avoidably unclear, I’ll try to summarize as barebones as possible:
it’s about resources.
More resources behind a candidate materially changes that candidates viability; unless you can explain how a progressive candidate in this scenario invalidates the resources and reach that’s actually of concern when weighing whether a candidate can succeed, you – likewise – are opting to ignore the details of the reasoning and not actually address them.
P. S.
I’m not someone who prefers centrist or even left-of-center candidates; if I lived in NY, I’d definitely be voting for Mamdani and most certainly not Cuomo.
It’s weird to be like, “His progressivism makes the difference,” as though I’m hoping the party backs Cuomo or Adams and would rapidly vote third party in this case.
It’s weird to be like, “His progressivism makes the difference,” as though I’m hoping the party backs Cuomo or Adams and would rapidly vote third party in this case.
It’s honest. Voting 3rd party is literally voting for the worst candidate, in all cases unless there’s a progressive as the party’s nominee, in which case it doesn’t matter.
I’m sick of the double standards and I don’t buy the excuses for them.
Voting 3rd party is literally voting for the worst candidate, in all cases unless there’s a progressive as the party’s nominee, in which case it doesn’t matter.
See, this is why it feels like your responses are wholly detached from anything I’m actually saying.
I explicitly said that people who make these arguments don’t advocate against third party votes in local elections (because the viability/feasibility dynamics of a smaller population are different) and I thought it was clear to extrapolate from the underlying reasoning (but perhaps I was mistaken) that voting for a third party presidential nominee who’s been backed by, say, the Democratic party because they opted to not back the winner of their primary during a presidential election (which I didn’t mention as it feels highly unlikely, ever, but it’s the same premise) would make sense because that candidate would then have the name recognition, reach, and resources necessary to reach a populace as large as the entire nation.
Objectively, you’re directly contradicting what I’ve said the reasoning of the argument is, even when I’ve pointed out it argues the opposite.
The corrupt former governor sex pest he just beat, running as an independent in order to get a do-over
Current mayor in spite of being a hair’s breath from prison until he went full MAGA, always being a fascist cop (but I repeat myself) and genuinely unhinged, Eric Adams
Perennial loser and hyper-racist vigilante lunatic Curtis Sliwa.
Not only are they all awful candidates in themselves, their core demographics also overlap to such a degree that it’ll be an upset if more than one of them reaches double digits!
If NYC uses ranked choice voting in the general as well and Cuomo learns from his disaster of a campaign then he might try coalition-building with Eric Adams or others to pull off a win by getting neoliberals and MAGA to gang up on Zohran. It’s a headscratcher for me because I never expect neoliberals to learn from their mistakes, and yet they might actually feel forced to because they never fail to pull out all the stops against progressives, let alone an actual socialist.
It’s just a primary guys. Let’s hope he wins the seat.
That’s what’s fun about the whole establishment coming out swinging against him - he just won the primary. He’s not even elected yet, and they are losing their shit.
(also, didn’t notice until after posting that you’d posted 2 days ago - sorry for the necro post!)
Two days old post is still relevant on Lemmy. It’s when someone responds to a 3+ month comment that I’m like, “how did you find me?!”
I think Cuomo is going to stay in the race, it will be interesting to see who wealthy establishment Dems support.
If Cuomo runs 3rd party and the Dem establishment supports him, I’m going to fling that back at anyone who tells me to not vote 3rd party in a presidential election, lol.
I’m going to flip out if the dems support Cuomo and I’m honestly half expecting them to
I’m fully expecting them to. The Dem leadership supporting an ACTUAL leftist is only SLIGHTLY more likely than them going full fascist and endorsing Curtis Sliwa…
Sweet summer child.
“Vote blue no matter who”
Mamdani wins historic primary victory
“…shit”
He’s running as an independent, yes.
Unless they suddenly fall back in love with Adams or go full Sliwa, they will. They fight the left exactly as much as they accommodate the far right.
Last I heard, which I think was just hours old, is he’s still considering running as an independent. He hasn’t decided yet. I guess he’s waiting to see how much corporations will pay him?
You’re going to fling that a high-profile and well-recognized (even amongst non-politically engaged voters) organization gave recognition and resources to a third party in a local (not even gubernatorial but) mayoral election as a counter defense for voting for a third party in a presidential election?
If they do it against a progressive after making a huge deal about not doing it against a centrist? You may like that level of rank hypocrisy.
I mean, I’m not even arguing one way or the other. When people argue against voting for a third party in a presidential election, it’s on the basis that the candidate has absolutely no shot at winning and, at best, will split the vote.
It has nothing to do with liking or not liking hypocrisy; the basis of their argument is entirely about whether a strategy is viable, not whether they felt good about the decision.
I assumed that the OP was actually trying to poke holes in the argument but arguing that the Democratic party has backed a third-party candidate in a local election doesn’t negate any of the actual points regarding dissuading voting for a third-party candidate who is without the same resources and does not have the same kind of outreach (such as appearing in debates, etc.) in a presidential election. That’s why, notably, OP had to specify a presidential election: people don’t, generally, argue against voting for third parties at the local level because the visibility of those candidates winning is entirely different.
Do you get what I mean? It wholly doesn’t engage with the actual reasoning or evidence for the argument so it…wouldn’t mean anything, if you did try to use it as a rebuttal.
I get that you’re talking out of your ass making excuses and trying to justify random decisions you’ve made to kiss copirate dems asses, why you repeat the corporate media talking points I can’t explain but you clearly are just a parrot and not thinking it through
Damn; that’s…really impressive to’ve gleaned all of this insight about my past decisions on a comment that has mentioned none of my past decisions. You’ve got nothing on Miss Cleo.
Would you care to explain what corporate media talking points I’m reiterating?
Also, I’ve not been remotely as aggressive or attacking to anyone here; you’re acting like I’m encouraging people to vote for Cuomo or Adams. I have not given this level of hostility or assumption of poor character out the gate like this, remotely.
You’re going to need a backhoe upgrade if you’re going to keep moving your goalposts like that.
I genuinely don’t believe I’ve moved the goalposts, especially as I didn’t argue anyone new in my last post.
Would you be able to explain to me how I moved them so I can better understand what you’re seeing?
Yeah. It’s conveniently different in this case because the nominee is a progressive.
It seems I’m not able to break down the core basics of the underlying mechanics well enough so we’ll probably have to end the conversation but, just in case I’m still being avoidably unclear, I’ll try to summarize as barebones as possible:
it’s about resources.
More resources behind a candidate materially changes that candidates viability; unless you can explain how a progressive candidate in this scenario invalidates the resources and reach that’s actually of concern when weighing whether a candidate can succeed, you – likewise – are opting to ignore the details of the reasoning and not actually address them.
P. S.
I’m not someone who prefers centrist or even left-of-center candidates; if I lived in NY, I’d definitely be voting for Mamdani and most certainly not Cuomo.
It’s weird to be like, “His progressivism makes the difference,” as though I’m hoping the party backs Cuomo or Adams and would rapidly vote third party in this case.
It’s honest. Voting 3rd party is literally voting for the worst candidate, in all cases unless there’s a progressive as the party’s nominee, in which case it doesn’t matter.
I’m sick of the double standards and I don’t buy the excuses for them.
See, this is why it feels like your responses are wholly detached from anything I’m actually saying.
I explicitly said that people who make these arguments don’t advocate against third party votes in local elections (because the viability/feasibility dynamics of a smaller population are different) and I thought it was clear to extrapolate from the underlying reasoning (but perhaps I was mistaken) that voting for a third party presidential nominee who’s been backed by, say, the Democratic party because they opted to not back the winner of their primary during a presidential election (which I didn’t mention as it feels highly unlikely, ever, but it’s the same premise) would make sense because that candidate would then have the name recognition, reach, and resources necessary to reach a populace as large as the entire nation.
Objectively, you’re directly contradicting what I’ve said the reasoning of the argument is, even when I’ve pointed out it argues the opposite.
It would take a catastrophe for him not to.
His opponents in the general are as follows:
The corrupt former governor sex pest he just beat, running as an independent in order to get a do-over
Current mayor in spite of being a hair’s breath from prison until he went full MAGA, always being a fascist cop (but I repeat myself) and genuinely unhinged, Eric Adams
Perennial loser and hyper-racist vigilante lunatic Curtis Sliwa.
Not only are they all awful candidates in themselves, their core demographics also overlap to such a degree that it’ll be an upset if more than one of them reaches double digits!
If NYC uses ranked choice voting in the general as well and Cuomo learns from his disaster of a campaign then he might try coalition-building with Eric Adams or others to pull off a win by getting neoliberals and MAGA to gang up on Zohran. It’s a headscratcher for me because I never expect neoliberals to learn from their mistakes, and yet they might actually feel forced to because they never fail to pull out all the stops against progressives, let alone an actual socialist.
It does not, for some weird reason. City primaries only.
Hey, nobody messes with the Zohran!
hope it annoys Adam Sandler.
Good. Zionists should suffer every day.