Yes, both parties suck, and you are allowed to dislike both, but they don’t suck equally and not (completely) in the same way and you are obliged to decide for yourself which party sucks harder, which you dislike more, and most importantly - which are you the most scared of getting into power.
Just because you don’t want to be neither leftist nor rightist doesn’t mean you need to aim for the dead center. That’s as dogmatic as aiming for one of the extremes, and in fact dumber because it’s not even motivated by any ideology.
Isn’t it fascinating both sides are bad argument has been most effective in convincing those on the left to not vote?
Meanwhile that argument doesn’t tend to work on the right and they brush it off and go out to vote consistently.
The data disagrees with you, though.
Could of fooled me. Guess orange didn’t win. Guess we can also ignore tendency of populations to also be drawn to fascism during economic tough times. Didn’t know voter suppression benefits leftists more than the right.
All of this… it could have been stopped. We don’t have to love (or even like) the Democrats, but it was such an important election, and everybody was screaming to vote against fascism. Well, a lot of people couldn’t be bothered, and it’s here now. Hope our country survives this administration…
It’s in part because Biden ran on opposing fascism, got elected, and then did nothing to oppose fascism. He sold himself as a dragonslayer, but once he got in, he didn’t want to upset the pro-dragon crowd.
So, yeah, when his protege ran the exact same campaign, it didn’t instill a lot of confidence.
He slow walked us to this, Trump should have been jailed, convicted, and in the dirt by now. But no, the neo-liberals didn’t want to upset the MAGAts or something. His speech about needing both Democrats and Republicans made me SICK.
I can’t help but feel like it’s also in part because a good amount of folks are just… as delicately as I can put it… the kind of people that pick up a fork to eat a bowl of soup.
The rationale I have heard from tons and tons of voters just makes absolutely no god damn sense at all. There’s of course mass manipulation and all that but goodness gracious, the complete lack of critical thinking skills is astounding.
I feel this. My in-laws voted for Trump because Biden was going to outlaw Catholicism in the United States. Absolute lunatics.
That is a really stupid reason to let a fascist win though. Like, why should I respect or align myself with such a stupid group of people?
If your only options are the fascist or the guy who promised to bring the fascist to justice but actually didn’t even try, then your problem isn’t getting solved by voting in that election.
Maybe if you stopped viewing every single election as “this one has to solve everything”
What’s stupider? Trying to kick Lucy’s football again or walking away?
What would the Democrats be doing differently if they were actual fascist collaborators? I can’t think of anything. The Democrats make up excuses for why they can’t intervene, then they blame the voters. Voting D hasn’t solved the fascist problem for 50+ years. Democrats have overseen some of the most brutal genocides and mass murder campaigns against non-Europeans. They have total continuity in funding and protecting the military-industrial-media-complex. They have total continuity in ensuring there are no consequences for the most egregious violations of human rights, civil rights, and human decency.
Mass incarceration is a bi-partisan consensus. Prison slavery is a bi-partisan consensus. Black ghettos are a bi-partisan consensus. Solitary confinement is a bi-partisan consensus. Solitary confinement for toddlers is a bi-partisan consensus. Starving children and elderly around the world is a bi-partisan consensus. Spying on all US citizens through warrantless surveillance dragnets of all communications is a bi-partisan consensus. Militarizing local police is a bi-partisan consensus. Undermining labor unions is a bi-partisan consensus. Maintaining legacy apartheid structures in funding elementary and secondary education is a bi-partisan consensus.
At what point do we conclude that the Democrats couldn’t be worse if they were actively supporting fascism? At what point do we say that their limited and milquetoast rhetoric against a few bad things, and only some times, and only some of them, is not a sufficient reason to believe they are on our side?
As much as that’s true this was all necessary. Biden wouldn’t have gotten anything passed that would fix our current situation. The MAGAts controlled the house.
Look at all the progressive candidates that are already winning elections. After this if there isn’t a supermajority in both house and senate than the country was lost long ago.
And those people are still insisting that we don’t blame them for the consequences of their decisions.
I just think that the blame should be squarely on the people who actively voted for the fascism.
There were more non-voters than there were voters for Orangina
I’m going to keep holding them accountable too!
Not lifting a finger against fascism is actively voting for fascism. Yes, the choices were all bad, but one was obviously much, much worse and they made a choice. Nobody gets a pass for gross negligence simply because irresponsible decisions were lower-effort than others.
But what if we can find a way to scream at people that agree with us on 80-90% of issues instead? That seems more productive than focusing on the actual Nazis!
One side has real Nazis
And the other side seeks to compromise with them.
OK, we fucking know, so? We should let the Nazi’s win because the Democrats are spineless capitalists?
The point is that we can’t count on neo-liberals to do the right thing, they’re complicit in all this. So the Dems as a whole aren’t a party we can rely on until we primary them out.
Oh damn you right we should’ve voted for the magical third party that definitely would’ve won
No third party candidate could have lost as bad as Kamala did. Presidency and both Houses.
Objectively wrong because there were third party candidates already on the ballot! How could you say they would’ve won when they already were running and lost?! “Oh they would’ve won if they were there” They were there! [These are they!](Third-party and independent candidates for the 2024 United States presidential election - Wikipedia https://share.google/xcOuOQvNZvwLprps9)
I didn’t say they would’ve won, stop moving goal posts.
I said they couldn’t have lost more than Kamala did. Because it was a binary thing on three counts?
Did she win the Presidency? No.
Did she keep the Senate? No.
Did she win the House? No.
No matter what you think of Claudia De La Cruz or Jill Stein, it’s just a simple fact neither one of them could have given a worse outcome than that one. And given the resources Kamala had, that’s particularly pathetic.
So are you saying that the third party candidates would’ve won given her resources and backing?
*is fascists, like nazis
ICE records show Biden admin plans could give Trump a head start on deportations
President Biden Signs Anti-Immigrant Spending Bill Reaching Trump-Era Highs
Biden’s Emergency Funding Proposal Seeks $14 Billion for Immigration System From Congress
Tom Homan - Border Czar was originally appointed by Obama
Keep in mind, these democrat moves to bolster ICE were happening while the right was blatantly telegraphing their moves to immediately weaponize ICE once they took power. Project 2025 came out and promised to use ICE to plunder and abuse Americans. Biden and team then spent the next 4 years not only failing to prepare for Trump, but preemptively strengthening the mechanisms Trump would eventually use to carry out project 2025. The democrats are controlled opposition.
Sure, maybe we wouldnt be seeing this intense of immigration enforcement if Kamala were in charge, but if she were, she’d be working behind the scenes to ensure the right had all the tools they needed when the time was right.
The democrats are controlled opposition and the American electoral system is kabuki theater. The fascist descent is the only logical conclusion to the American political experiment- which was predicated on the wholesale genocide of Native American Indians and quickly pivoted to enslaving an entire continent.
The only logical conclusion to this “pragmatic liberal utilitarianism” is a situation where liberals are chiding leftists for not voting for dem candidate Ted Cruz as he campaigns against republican candidate Mecha Hitler. Liberals will still see nothing wrong with that. They will sell out the victims of American Imperialism to buy themselves 4 more years of political waffling - just as they did with Palestinians.
I get the sentiment but what bugs me about posts like this (and I’m guilty of making them), is that they assume a single vote is all it will take.
I typically vote democrat, not because I support them, but because I try to maximize the effectiveness of my vote. A third party or protest vote accomplishes nothing but self satisfaction. A painful vote for someone you know sucks, but is a step in the right direction is the right strategy. The dems, who without a doubt are terrible, at least showed that they will eventually listen to their voters when they swapped out biden’s carcass. I was not in love with Kamala, but at least we had a viable candidate who wasn’t an obvious fascist.
The vote is where the work STARTS. Electing dems is not the destination, they are just a tool to help us get where we need to go. Use them, then discard them.
A painful vote for someone you know sucks, but is a step in the right direction is the right strategy.
Again, the only logical conclusion to this “pragmatic” utilitarianism is reaching a point where you’re talking yourself into voting for dem candidate Ted Cruz as he runs against mecha Hitler. This philosophy is incompatible with being against genocide.
If Trump were a democrat, blueMAGA would be chiding leftists for not voting for him. If, in 20 years, the choice for president is between a democrat who wants to kill 6 million jews, and a republican who wants to kill 10 million jews, will you still be militantly democrat?
The dems, who without a doubt are terrible, at least showed that they will eventually listen to their voters when they swapped out biden’s carcass.
Is this really a point in your favor? How was that debacle anything other than a perfect illustration of how democrats will feign powerlessness, and then adjust course too late? If anything, the democrats can be characterized as too little, too late. They are dooming us to a fascist descent, and we have to make our own party.
Here’s the thing. You take enough steps in the right direction, and eventually you are on the right path. It sure as hell beats standing still and letting some jackass drag you in the wrong direction. If you let that happen once, then you have to get back on your feet and starting waking in the right direction just to get back to where you were before.
People say that Democrats are just controlled opposition, and that’s not true. Non-voters are the controlled opposition. Not advocating for themselves, not advocating for basic decency and accountability allows us all to be governed in an indecent and unaccountable way. They’ve been tricked into this by troll accounts saying “both sides are the same”.
Yes and the other side enables them. It’s fascists vs oligarchs that benefit from fascists. We’re not living in a democracy. People need to realize you can’t just vote fascism away. The entire system should be thrown into the dustbin of history.
“I don’t particularly like the other guys, so in practice I’m fine with Nazi’s in power”
– smartest .ml user.
Unfortunate you felt the need to change their words and ridicule them instead of engaging with their actual point.
They didn’t say they were “fine with Nazis in power.” They argued the system itself is broken; when the choice is between fascists and those who enable them, you’re not living in a functioning democracy. Voting can’t fix a game that’s already rigged.
Mocking them just avoids the harder conversation but you do you boo.
Because they had no point and deserve to be ridiculed. That thought process is precisely what got us here, and they decide to continue to double down.
Of course Gaza would still be a humanitarian nightmare, but none of the other things happening right now would have been happening if Harris won, and if you can’t see that then you just should never vote again period.
“the brown people would still be dying, but who cares”
– the regular Dem
Now who’s building a strawman.
It’s weird that you are unwilling to see that Trump is worse than harris. It’s like the difference between losing a finger and losing a hand. Yes both are bad but surely you can see that one is worse?
It’s also weird that you would characterize the other comments so dishonestly. Like that’s not snark it’s just bullshit.
How is he worse?
The US political system is so, so very broken and honestly needs to be built up from scratch.
Voting should be compulsory.
Voting should be accessible.
The bar for entry to run should be much lower and more accessible to people who want to run and make a change.
Preferential voting should be considered.
The people should have veto power over government if there is a vote of no confidence to allow a dissolution of said government and snap elections held to redistribute power in favour of the people.
And so much more. Like getting rid of gerrymandering, electoral college etc. So that the votes actually reflect what the people want. If the country is mostly progressive, then it moves in a progressive direction.
Etc. Etc.
I can envision how to make voting accessible. I can’t envision how to make it compulsory. Any suggestions?
We get a fine of $50. The purpose is not to punish those who don’t vote but to make the act of voting more palatable.
In Australia, we still get donkey votes and non voters but they’re in the minority, and definitely not in the millions.
So in AU you must vote or it’s a $50 fine?
Technically it’s just that you must show up to a polling location and get your name ticked off, if you really can’t handle voting nobody will know if you drop in blank slips.
If you don’t show up and haven’t done a postal vote you get a letter later on asking whether you had a valid reason to not vote, if you don’t have one then pay the fine.
Yep. Or at least that’s how much it was 10 years ago when someone I knew didn’t vote and purposefully stayed home. Could be a bit more than that now. I think the money goes to the electoral commission and is redistributed as election funds to parties on the next election. Happy to be corrected on that point, though.
We also have preferential voting, which means there’s more than 100 people to vote for. You can pick your top 12 or number every single one in order of preference. This means that your vote counts for something in the end, so there’s no feeling of having your vote wasted if “your side” isn’t elected.
Here’s the thing: When you don’t vote, you COULD be saying that both candidates are bad, and you don’t like either of them…
Or you could be saying that both candidates are great, and you love both of them. That you’re sure either of them will do an equally good job of running the country, so it doesn’t matter who wins.
And if you don’t feel that way, then you need to VOTE
Acting like voting D would fix anything is a huge part of the problem.
Acting like not voting at all would fix anything is a huge part of the problem. Yeah the Democrats not going to do anything, but you know what that means, the Democrats won’t do anything. They won’t embarass America on the world stage every day, they won’t fund the Gestapo to assault minorities and they won’t threaten allies with invasion.
Sure the Democrats suck, the whole damn system sucks but it’s a whole lot better for a whole lot of people when the Republicans are not in charge.
I wouldn’t advocate for not voting, voting third party would be my advice if you don’t want to personally get involved in politics.
voting third party would be my advice
Hope that advice only applies to local/state elections, cuz voting 3rd party for president is about as useful as an asshole on your elbow.
The only reason its as ineffective as it is now is because of people like you spend a ridiculous amount of time and effort shaming those who might consider it.
Saying a third party couldn’t win is factually incorrect, yet its a common phrase on here isn’t it.
Only once has a third party candidate made much progress, and Perot was right-wing/libertarian. You can’t skip right to a third party presidential candidate without making progress with that party locally first, then in Congress. That just how this system works. You can pretend that enough people will spontaneously vote for your same third party candidate, but that’s a demonstrably a fantasy. You can claim that a vote reflects on your own morality rather than something strategic and practical, but that’s a view pushed by people hoping to take advantage of youth vanity and split the vote.
You can’t skip right to a third party presidential candidate without making progress with that party locally first
I swear to God. It’s like trying to tell a child you can’t have ice cream because you’re stranded on a desert island and they KEEP INSISTING that they want ice cream.
It’s infuriating.
Like, it isn’t complicated. You can’t start at the beginning of a board game, roll a 6, and move your piece 57 spaces to the end and win. That’s impossible.
It’s wild how many Americans exist outside reality.
They won’t embarass America on the world stage every day, they won’t fund the Gestapo to assault minorities and they won’t threaten allies with invasion.
Yaaay we get decorum and stability at home so we can ignore the Palestinians / Yemenis / Somalis / etc being bombed overseas! Hopefully the bomb will even be dropped by a diverse team under the Dems!
That’s a single issue. I agree it’s shitty all around. But there are hundreds of issues that are more important. Namely allowing children to be molested, people dying from not having healthcare, and deporting parents and stranding children just to name a few.
It’s shitty all around. It’s even shittier when it turns into a pissing contest of shittiness.
- Joe Biden had the files and did not release them, so miss me with the “only dems will save the kids” shit
- I don’t know why you’re implying we need to pick one or the other, but claiming that (at most) 100 - 200 western children being molested takes precedence over thousands of Palestinian children being murdered displays your white supremacist mindset.
- Parents being deported and stranding children is terrible. It is not more terrible than parents being murdered and children being murdered. What the fuck are you talking about?
Jesus Christ dude. You are insufferable. Read all the rest of your comments.
Being insufferable to Blue MAGA means I’m doing something right.
‘It’s the dems fault for putting a brown woman as a candidate.’
Which one do I press to stop Palestinian kids from getting murked?
Your comment is exactly what the comic is about.
I’m reality both sides have nazis, just one is lying about it.
My point exactly.
If the results are the same, why participate in the charade of a system? So you can feel good about yourself? So you can go back to brunch and pretend that Obama didn’t found ICE or Biden didn’t actually ramp up the family detention centers instead of shutting them down completely?
Ou êtes-vous même américain à la base?
This isn’t a choice that really has any bearing on that, unfortunately.
Neither. But one has less of them murked.
You’re right, fewer Palestinians have been killed under the republican administration
That honestly stays the same regardless of which party gets elected.
i feel like i’m gonna be reposting this image for eternity
Yeah except it’s bullshit. Plenty (maybe most) people I’ve seen on here are capable of doing both.
This is just some strawman bullshit. These people are not your enemy, stop misrepresenting them.
Essentially everyone on the Left considers Liberals fair-weather friends at best and certainly not anyone who’d stick their neck out for voters.
And they consider anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their very specific form of leftism to be a “liberal.”
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Less both sides are bad and more the democrats are so fucking convinced that being just to the left of republicans and so fucking unwilling to do anything to fight against them that legitimately it would have just been better to just have Trump win in 2020 so that he would still have no plan for what to do with the power.
If Gavin Newsome is the democratic candidate in 2028 I will not vote for him. All that him winning would do is let the republicans win in 2032 and actually just end democracy. If they can’t cancel the 2028 elections then there is no way they would be able to build up the support needed to cancel them by the next election, and at least that would give us one more chance to get someone who might do something.
