Their tagline is literally ‘you buy it, you own it’. But does it really grants ownership?
No it doesn’t. It’s just a digital use license like in any other store. Here’s the relevant part from their User agreemet
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘license’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content
That is legally the same as any other store out there.
So why does GoG make a big fuss about that? Well, it’s mostly a PR stunt, but there is some truth to it. Games sold on GoG are, majorly, DRM-free (although not 100% of them, but close to it), this means that you can backup your game installer and install it and play it in the distant future even if GoG is no more. The reason why this is mostly a PR stunt is that you can do the same with most games from other stores as well, except you backup the game folder instead of the installer, because (and this is the part I think people always miss) if a game is on Gog and any other store it’s almost assuredly DRM free in ALL stores.
Don’t get me wrong, GoG is great and their policy on DRM is something that I think other companies should really imitate. But it’s not the be all and end all that some people make it out to be, and to me personally when I have to decide where to invest my money my choices are between a company that has a relatively decent DRM policy but doesn’t care for me as a customer, and a company that has literally spent millions making my gaming experience as a Linux user better, it’s a no contest. If I was on Windows I might consider buying more stuff from GoG because of their DRM policy, but being able to easily play games on Linux is more important for me than DRM.
Hey, great comment. You touched on everything, and did it with nuance.
Functionally, yes. Legally, no.
to all the people bitching about steam. this post doesn’t even mention steam. this post is about GOG. you’re literally in the wrong thread.
also, if you don’t like it, pirate it.
thank you for your attention to this manner.
It gives you the ability to download an installer you can use as needed. I don’t know if that technically counts as ownership but it’s better in that sense than say, steam is, which requires you to download/install through their client.
There are DRM free games on steam. Take, for example, Ballistic.NG, one of if not the best AG Racer of all time.
You get the installer? Or you can copy the game directory elsewhere and just run it? Not trying to argue with you just wondering how it works because I wasn’t aware of that.
Invalid weblink, so I’ll link the store page for BallisticNG, for anyone else who wants to take a peek
Technically no, it still grants you a license like any other store. In practice it’s a bit closer to ownership than what you get with other stores, as GOG does not have the ability to take your games away once you have downloaded them and you can do whatever you want with the files. But you’re not legally allowed to sell your copy for example.
In the Germany you are allowed to sell it, however no platform has implemented this and nobody fought for it yet. But there are several verdicts regarding this.
My understanding, or assumption from considering classic physical goods, is that if you buy the digital product you may be able to resell it, but if you license it it’s not buying and you don’t own a product you can resell.
If GoG licenses you a product you can download and can archive, then it’s not bought and may not be resellable. (?)
As said, in Germany we’ve had the rulings that software licenses can be sold and transferred.
I’ve been laughed at for this before, but I feel like this is exactly what NFTs could be used for. You could resell it and you’d lose the access to the game. I really feel like this would make digital game ownership a thing, without “akshully it’s a license”
Who manages the access, who platforms, and serves the NFT content?
If it’s up to the store to do so, you don’t need NFT for that. The store can already do that.
It’s just that NFTs are a needlessly complicated way to implement that.
In concept, maybe. At the end of the day though, it’s not that useful. Unless the NFT contains the full game file, who’s hosting it? That host could just have a key that’s attached to your account, which you can sell. Valve supports trading items on Steam without NFTs.
NFTs would be useful for something like a deed to a house. It contains the paperwork, and is backed up with an agreement from a bank or something. For digital items? It’s more hype than actual utility. Once you get to implementation, it just ends up being a storefront that supports trading, which doesn’t require NFTs.
You know what, that’s the most sense I think I ever heard regarding nft. However it breaks at two points.
For one the software itself needs to be dongled with this, which brings a lot of issues and dependencies.
The other thing is the nft cryptography needs to be safe and reliable ‘forever’. Cryptography is ever evolving so it might be okay for now, but who knows, especially with quantum processing supposedly close by, for how long.
I have all of mine backed up on a hard drive. They have nothing preventing me from using them on the last working computer at the end of the world
It provides identical amounts of ownership to pirating it. Legally it’s a license same as Steam.
They allow you to make as many offline backup copies of the games’ installers as you want and you don’t need to use any of their services after purchase (except downloading from their site), it’s as close as it gets to “digital ownership”
They allow you
No, this is a lie. Copyright law itself allows you to make copies for backup. GOG merely follows the law without trying to gaslight you otherwise, like other online game sellers do.
You keep attacking other people who are on the same side as you. What specific law are you referring to?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117
(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.In the comment you replied to, I was talking about (2). In a bunch of other comments (the ones disputing the validity of EULAs), I was talking about (1).
Also, I’m not necessarily intending to attack people on the same side as me; I’m just sick and tired of all the corporate-serving misconceptions being bandied about in this thread (and in every other discussion of this topic, for that matter). It’s fucking exasperating how many people have drunk the corporatist and copyright cartel flavor-aid. Corporations don’t get to decide what people are “allowed” to do!
What it grants you is the ability to download and install the game as you see fit with no DRM software getting in the way. You don’t even have to use their launcher if you don’t want.
Steam allows the exact same thing FYI, they just don’t see the need to needlessly promote it to get sales.
Edit I guess people can’t realize this is specifically about drm-free games….
Of course games with drm can’t be downloaded, gog just doesn’t offer these games, so it’s not an issue there. Yet. If the game is drm free on GoG, it’s also available on Steam, and can be run offline with no checks. IE, Steam offers the exact same thing.
Steam allows DRM and even offers its own. You also can’t download anything without the launcher, even if the game is DRM-free.
GOG also allows DRM, it’s just not as common
Can you please elaborate on and define what DRM is “allowed” on GOG? From my most recent understanding, you can still play offline and don’t need to use the GOG launcher or some other launcher that requires an Internet connection.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1 The list is still maintained
I get and respect that people have different places where they draw lines. But to me, it doesn’t seem like they are abandoning the concept of DRM free in any real way. The majority of these have small bits of extra content, often cosmetic, like twitch drops that need the software to be online to redeem/verify.
For the few games on that list that are actually unplayable or crippled in some way, I am disappointed. For additional free or giveaway content from the developer that is part of the original package distributed through GOG, I’m much more understanding of GOG if the developer failed to accommodate offline verification/unlocking of that content.
Agreed, but an important thing to note is that list of games is smaller than a couple years ago, and I believe many of the ones that were removed because the DRM was removed are listed at the end. A couple of those were just mistaken releases, but several were allowed on GOG by CDPR with DRM fully intact, most notably Hitman 1 with an always-online requirement, and several others had DRM fully intact and were removed only when enough people complained. My point isn’t and never was “GOG is bad too, actually”; GOG remains the first place I look when I’m looking for a game, and I install it with the offline installer, which gets archived on the NAS once I’ve established it works and I reinstall the game with Galaxy because cloud saves and auto updates are convenient. My point was that, while ABSOLUTELY a rarer occurence than on Steam, GOG officially DOES allow DRM for single player games, and it’s only vigilant complaints that keep that list small
You can download and then copy games with steam, that is the choice of the developer.
I know that those exist. So enlighten me, how do I download them without the launcher?
The developer has a link sometimes, or otherwise any other mirror or torrent can work as well.
I little leg work isn’t gonna kill you ;)
Steam’s primary function since day 1 is literally DRM, you have no clue what you are talking about. Steam offers features like offline play but there’s console-like caveats there forcing periodic logins and launcher usage.
yes there are drm-free games on steam. this does not disprove their point. steam’s first role was as drm for half life 2. steam stops working if you don’t log in periodically.
And if you download a drm free game it doesn’t need to sync to Steam. You’re providing false information. The link specifies this.
Why are you claiming it does? Where did you get this information?
??? ??? ???
If you’re buying a game on GoG, it’s because it’s drm free. Which means it’s also drm free on Steam. So anyone looking at those games, would understand the context that we’re talking about the same type of games.
FIFA isn’t available of GoG, so of course we wouldn’t be talking about the same thing on Steam. You’re making massive assumptions dude. The talk has always been about drm free games, no one changed the topic.
oh? how?
The exact same way as gog, download the files to your pc.
huh? that’s not even what gog sells itself on. gog offers offline installers. steam takes care of installation itself. you can’t download a game from steam, put it on a usb drive, give it to someone else, and have confidence that they will be able to run it.
That’s not true at all…
Where are you getting your information from?
Why do you need an installer when the files are its own folder?
Installers deal with more than just unpacking files into a folder. There are often prerequisite shared libraries that are included in the installer that AREN’T in the game directory, which may or may not need to be installed along with the game depending on if your system already has it.
So just double-clicking the .exe after copying the folder to a new computer is not reliable in the same way GOG’s installers are.
steam. note that i said “a game”, not “a drm-free game”.
And we’re talking about drm free games, which GoG only provides, which means it’s also drm free on Steam…. Steam provides OTHER games that of course have drm.
Of course Steam has its own drm, I never said they didn’t. The picture also talks about this as well… did you not read it?
Years ago the was an option called something like download offline backup, I haven’t used steam in a long time so maybe it still possible. I didn’t like it back then because I still needed steam to install it, that means that I still need to log in at least once to be allowed to install the game.
yeah those files were encrypted in some way that required the steam client to unlock, if i recall.
You can only download steam games from the steam app. You can download gog games from the site, without using their galaxy app
That is a fair distinction, but once it’s downloaded and installed they are effectively identical.
Some steam games might still have the steampi and steamworks dll’s, so that’s still 2 bits that need to be deleted before they’re effectively identical.
Having the installers can be important, not every game may work out of the box if you only copy the installed folder to a different machine, some important configurations that are set up in different folders, like in
appdata%, might be missing. Steam checks if DirectX and the proper MSVC versions are installed, I suppose the GOG installers do that as well.According to the websites, you’re able to move it, and it provides those instructions on how to deal with those minor issues.
So in the end, following dev instructions, they will be the same in the end.
Edit Like so
GOG lets you download installers for all your games that you can back up somewhere so that you can install and run their DRM free games without GOG or even an internet connection. It’s like back when games came on cd/dvd.
Steam is DRM so in most cases you can’t launch any of your games without the Steam client. Steam does sell some games that are DRM free on Steam, but you still need the Steam client to install them.
So the difference here is that you can use GOG to build your own library of DRM free games that don’t need GOG at all. if GOG ceased to exist, you can still install and play all your games on any device you want.
If Steam ceased to exist, you’d have no way to install your games on any device so you’d only be able to play the games you currently have installed, and only if they’re DRM Free.
Sure. Where is the game installer you can download or the installed game you can download, disconnect from the internet, close steam, and run/install the game?
You could just go down the thread to see the links….
DRM free games are movable, that fits your rant yeah?
The installed files are not an installer. What you’re referencing is moving the preexisting program files of a game
Which is the entirety of the game, they also had that on their many itemmed rant. So why would you need an installer, when you have the entire game anyways?
”or the installed game”
Steam states in their EULA that your purchase a license to play the game but not own it
So does GOG dude…
where
their eula does not state that you do not own the games.
Section 2.1:
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘license’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This license is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this license in some situations, which are explained later on. You have the personal right to use GOG content and services. This right can be suspended or stopped by us in some situations.
What part of “license” is so hard for you to comprehend?
https://programming.dev/comment/23071365
This isn’t quite right. You do not own the game, you are purchasing a non-transferable license, bound to you:
2.1 We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘license’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This license is for your personal use.
3.3 Your GOG account and GOG content are personal to you and cannot be shared with, sold, gifted or transferred to anyone else.
It’s simply a boon that they entitle you to download DRM-free binaries but technically, if that license is revoked by GOG, you are not legally entitled to use or store that binary anymore. Practically, however, is a different story.
points two and three are for different things.
No they aren’t. Both mean that you don’t own the game.
lol no they aren’t.
EULAs are bunk. Quit buying the lies of copyright cartel shysters.
That really depends in what you think ‘ownership’ is. You can download offline installers and patches. But you can not use the assets of the game to create and sell a new game. You also cannot just create and sell other games heavily based on those games. Or use the music freely in YouTube videos with enabled commercials, and so on.
You don’t fully own it.
Ownership of an individual copy is different from being the copyright holder, but that does not mean “you don’t fully own” your individual copy.
Not to say you’re wrong, but in that line of thinking we don’t really own anything. I bought a physical book but can’t reproduce it even if I rewrite it slightly. I bought a car, but I can’t reproduce it even if I had the means. I believe OP is asking about DRM.
Yes. You can download the installers and patches. Put them on a hard-drive, shut down your computer, put the hard drive into another computer and install the game without ever connecting to the internet if you have wine on your system.
It’s yours.
I just shared all my GOG games with my family and they could install the games without a hitch. They could import it to Steam and Heroic and play it from there. Can’t do that with Steam.
This is what I do too. The first thing I do after buying from GoG is to download the installers, both Windows and Linux. So I don’t have to download again and again every time I install. I can carry a copy around and install it on an offline machine too. I also share my games with my family, just like sharing discs in the old time. If some of them like one of the games, they’ll buy it again themselves. If this is not owning games in practice, I don’t know what is.
Did you ever manage to get steam to let you import a gog game and install mods from steam’s modding community?
Stellaris mods are essentially only on steam, and my “buy from GOG whenever possible” rule means I have a gog copy instead of a steam one. And non-steam downloading of steam mods is a PITA.
Mods from steam modding community? I didn’t even know that existed xD I used r2modman and vortex mod manager (for nexus mods) for mods. Nexus Mods has mods for Stellaris. There’s absolutely no need for Steam in my world.
I just shared all my GOG games with my family and they could install the games without a hitch. They could import it to Steam and Heroic and play it from there. Can’t do that with Steam.
Steam tries to obstruct you from doing it, but Federal law gives you the right. Quit spreading misinformation about Steam having the power to override your property rights, because it doesn’t.
What is allowed to do and what it does differ. Stop being so blind.
And that makes it injustice that needs to be resisted!
What the fuck is wrong with you, that you just want to accept the enemy’s usurpation of your rights?
The notion that corporations get to unilaterally change the law to redefine what “buying” and “ownership” mean is some Stockholm syndrome, late-stage-capitalist, ass-backwards insanity. Snap the fuck out of it!
What Federation is being Federal to you? If it’s the USA, overriding your property rights was the whole purpose of the DMCA.
Even accepting the argument that a tyrannical law invalidates rights rather than violating them (which I don’t, BTW), the DMCA only applies to things that are DRM’d, not everything on Steam.
If we’re discussing what’s legal it’s 100% relevant. DMCA makes circumventing a digital lock a crime in the USA.
If we’re discussing what’s moral, then talk less. Nothing about the DMCA was moral.
What people need to get used to, is that you own copies of what you buy. You’re not entitled to own the source codes, unless the developer distributes that freely on their own like ID Software did for Doom (technically the Linux version).
So, what GOG is probably saying is, you’re entitled to the ownership of the copy by buying the copy. It is not restrained by DRM as it would if a game was on Steam or Epic Library (but there can be workarounds, you look that up yourself). You’re allowed to have the copy work offline, download its separate installer to archive for your personal use.
Now, what you aren’t allowed still, is to distribute the copy to other people.
This isn’t quite right. You do not own the game, you are purchasing a non-transferable license, bound to you:
2.1 We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘license’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This license is for your personal use.
3.3 Your GOG account and GOG content are personal to you and cannot be shared with, sold, gifted or transferred to anyone else.
It’s simply a boon that they entitle you to download DRM-free binaries but technically, if that license is revoked by GOG, you are not legally entitled to use or store that binary anymore. Practically, however, is a different story.
THAT IS A LIE. YOU ARE PARROTING THE LIES OF PEOPLE MOTIVATED TO SWINDLE YOU. STOP IT.
I do not give the slightest fuck what any bullshit “EULA” says, and neither should you, because EULAs are not legally valid in the first place, and never have been. They fail to meet several of the basic requirements of a contract, and the legal theory they rely on (that you have to copy software in order to install and/or run it) has a specific exception carved out for it in black-letter copyright law.
You didn’t read the part where I said “you own a copy” hence the word “copy”. Do you even read?
I did. That’s the bit that’s wrong. You don’t own a copy. Read the terms and conditions. I handily copied and pasted the relevant parts.
The fact you have a copy does not mean you own it. Ownership would mean you could transfer that property. You cannot transfer it (legally).
You own nothing on GOG. It’s a license like everywhere else plus the benefit of having access to DRM-free binaries. Your license permits you to download and use those binaries personally. But you do not own them.
That benefit of the rights to download and use those DRM-free binaries, however, is not to be sniffed at. It’s a fantastic benefit!
But you don’t own them.
Yes. So does buying it on Steam, or anywhere else.
Anyone claiming otherwise is LYING TO YOU.
Edit: apparently, some of y’all are misunderstanding me, so I’ll connect the dots for you more explicitly:
- Anybody who claims that games are “licensed, not sold” is lying to you.
- Steam claims that games are “licensed, not sold.”
- Therefore, Steam is lying to you.
In case it somehow still isn’t clear, this is the exact fucking polar opposite of “shilling for Steam!”
The bottom line is this: nobody – not GOG, not Steam, not brick-and-mortar stores – gets to somehow ignore or override Federal laws like copyright law and the Uniform Commercial Code. And THE LAW SAYS that when you buy a copy of a copyrighted work, you own that copy!
Steam can lie to you and try to frustrate your ability to exercise your property rights, but that does not mean you don’t have them!
You are arguing from the rights consumers are supposed to have. Everyone else is arguing from the rights consumers do have. Hope this clears up the confusion for you.
Just because a right is infringed upon doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Moreover, being subjugated under tyranny doesn’t mean you should accept the rhetorical framing of the tyrant!
You have no idea what you are talking about lol
Oh really? Explain how I’m wrong, then!
Steam shill detected.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Defending property rights is not shilling for Steam! Fuck Steam; it’s part of the problem when it comes to pushing this “licensed, not sold” bullshit!
If you aren’t a steam shill, why are you lying that steam gives you ownership of a game? It doesn’t. GoG does.
I’m not lying. Why are you lying in Steam’s favor, trying to pretend it’s entitled to powers it doesn’t have?
Steam dishonestly tries to pretend that buying a copy of a game is somehow something other than buying that copy, but Steam is not fucking entitled to override copyright law and the uniform commercial code!
If anything, you’re the one shilling for Steam – I’m attacking it!
Either you’re an AI with like 1k parameters or you’re the most confused individual I’ve met today.
- OP asks if GOG gives you ownership
- you say so does steam
- I say that’s not true, you shill
- you turbo lose your shit and say you’re attacking steam
- I ask why you’re saying Steam supposedly grants you ownership, affirming that GoG does
- you accuse me of being a shill for saying Steam doesn’t grant ownership
Let’s take a step back to see if we’re on the same page
- GoG grants you ownership of your purchases
- Steam grants you a licence of your purchases
- GoG good
- Steam bad
Let’s take a step back to see if we’re on the same page
- GoG grants you ownership of your purchases ← Wrong (in a minor way). Federal law itself grants you ownership of your purchases; GoG merely follows the law.
- Steam grants you a licence of your purchases ← WRONG! Steam claims this, but Steam is lying to try to deprive you of your property rights.
- GoG good
- Steam bad ← Agreed, but not because games bought from them are “licensed, not sold.” Steam is bad for misrepresenting them as being “licensed, not sold” and using technical means to frustrate your ability to exercise your property rights.
Now quit calling me confused, because my claims have been entirely consistent throughout this entire thread.
- When you buy a copy of a copyrighted work, you own that copy of that copyrighted work. Not merely “license” it.
- Software is not an exception to this.
- Corporations do not have some kind of magic privilege to override Federal law, no matter how much they dishonestly claim otherwise.
The only way you truly get ownership over an software or game is through piracy. Any other way in theory (I think?), they can still just take away the game and/ or software from you.
You can download the installer from GOG and then use it to instal as ypu wish, without the need to use GOG from that point forward. It’s the same concept, just without the piracy.
Aight, cool. Glad that’s possible. I’m still bit wary about these kind of stuff with companies. Even with GOG.
It’s good to stay vigilant. Trust, but verify
And how would they do that? Knock on my door on a Sunday morning, enter and trash my external hard drives where I keep the backup installers?
Knock on my door on a Sunday morning, enter and trash my external hard drives where I keep the backup installers?
Yes.
Sure, in the same way that stealing a physical object gives you rightful, legal ownership of that object. Which is to say, not even slightly.
In reality, the way to have ownership of a copy of a piece of software is to legally obtain it (either via purchase or by being given it for free by someone who has the right to do that, e.g. in the case of Free Software).
Some entities you buy games from might have the technical ability to remove/destroy your property and might even get away with doing so, but that doesn’t mean it somehow isn’t theft.
Technical ability != legal right, in both cases.
If you refer to Piracy, I’m not even going to debate the whole ‘‘stealing vs not stealing’’. Think however you want about it.
🙄 “Copyright infringement is not theft” is usually an argument I’m the one making, but that’s not the point right now. It was meant to be an analogy, not a strict equating of the two concepts.
The point is that acquiring something by other-than-legal means, whatever they are and regardless of whether the act of transference was a crime or a civil tort, does not confer legal ownership. That’s just a fact, not an ethical judgement, and isn’t really debatable.
I understand you are trying to drag me into a debate. I’m not going to. You do you.
I understand that you’re grasping at straws to avoid addressing the essential part of my argument (which, restated again, is that you can’t receive legal ownership from somebody who doesn’t have the right to give it to you), which is tantamount to conceding the point.
Kind of depends on what definition of ownership you want to use.
Can you re-sell it? No.
Can you give it away? No.
Can you bequeath it in your will? No.
So no, I don’t think so. Personally I prefer Steam’s more recent approach of just very clearly telling you that what you are paying for is a license for use. I find Gog’s redefinition of the word “own” distasteful.
You can make as many copies as you want of the games you downloaded and they are not tied to your account. You can just give away a copy of the game. You can not sell it officially/legally but you could give someone a copy for cash. I think you could leave someone a hard-drive full of games in your will.
If you cannot do it legally then it’s not legally ownership. You are talking about de facto ownership, which is another thing entirely.
I can totally bequeath in my will a safety deposit box with notes containing all if the credentials required to access all of my accounts and devices, functionally giving away my Gog account. However, if Gog or any of the publishers involved find out that I am legally dead they can totally ban that account and pursue legal action against anyone else who accessed it, violating terns of service
