- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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So, to all the people freaking out and saying this is as bad as Musk and Neuralink:
There is here zero mention of things like ‘being able to take a phone call’ or ‘bluetooth your brain directly into a keyboard or mouse or other people’s brains’ as Musk was saying.
This seems very much intended to be aimed at legitimate medical conditions.
They didn’t steal the PhD work of an actual pioneer in the development of medical brain implants via poaching a number of grad students who worked with him (which is what happened with Neuralink, btw), they are instead partnering with basically a nonprofit cooperative of the world’s foremost experts on nanoelectronics development, who have an established track record of developing various medical devices.
…
If news comes out about GabeN electrocuting monkeys and pigs to either death, or insanity/brain damage so extreme it causes them to kill themselves to escape the pain (again, this literally happened at Neuralink), then I will absolutely do a 180 heel pivot and condemn the fuck out of that.
Just to be clear here, a BCI is probably the very last thing I would ever be an early adopter of as some kind of commercial, general use product. Seems absolutely insane given the rampant cybersecurity problems just basically everywhere all the time, not to mention I just don’t like the idea of an actual chip in my actual brain, permanent holes in my skull.
Valve and GabeN are not some paragons of virtue, they basically invented (and still widely use and encourage) half of the monetization and dark pattern bullshit that is now everywhere in the entire games industry.
… But to me at least, this seems nowhere near as openly, comically, real world supervillain levels of evil as Elon and Neuralink.
The only condition under which I wouid ever consider getting a neural implant, is if the implant and its software is open source.
Any closed source thing you stick in your brain will ultimately doom you.
Besides that, there’d also actually have to be a purpose. As it stands now, cybernetics isn’t advanced enough to turn me into a full cyborg, so probably never in my lifetime.
I don’t think it’s expected that the average person will be jumping at the opportunity to tinker with their neurons. The first line of people to get such implants will almost certainly be people with physical disabilities.
Regarding closed source ultimately being a net negative to your well being, I think you’re absolutely right. Unfortunately with as niche as a product like this will be for some time, I worry any corporation willing to put forward the funding isn’t going to be willing to open it up to such a degree.
While true regarding open source vs closed course. The risks are quite large for patients. For example, a few years ago there was a company called Second Sight that made artificial eyes so blind people could partially see again. Then the company discontinued the product and now they are stuck with an unsupported surgically implanted device that they rely heavily on but can break any time. It’s pretty risky to have something implanted if you don’t know if the company will be around in a decade or so.
All these brain chips will primarily, initially, be for crippled people. Maybe a controller chip to control prosthetic arms, or something to let a paraplegic person control a computer.
It’s still fun to hear the man himself talking about a larger than life virtual reality.
The tech still scares me, I’m not even sure I’d be okay with EEG-like patches that work both ways (scifi, I know), not to mention brain surgery, for pure decadence. But the quality of life benefits really can be huge for many, and that really got my fantasy going, once I ‘accepted’ we figured out the limits and safeties of bodily autonomy.
Suddenly this makes way more sense
I can hear this picture
HL3 is going to be launched with Valve’s brain chip.
They don’t even have to make the game. The chip will convince you that you have already played the game and it’s the best game ever.
HL3 is going to be launched with Valve’s brain chip.
The headcrabs feel like headcrabs!
The fact that most people would obviously never want to get a brain chip implant, combined with the fact that multiple billionaires are developing brain chip implants, indicates that there are plans in some circles to incentivize or coerce people into getting a brain chip implant at some point in the future.
It’s risk/reward. If brain chips made me twice as productive or intelligent, I’d probably tolerate a lot more risk than if it was just a way to check my Instagram notifications without pulling out my phone.
Productive or intelligent for whose benefit? If it’s so that you can perform better under wage labor conditions, that’s coercion.
I am self-employed. So myself, I guess.
Well then hell yea, it’s likely you won’t be coerced into it’s use. Though sticking to my original prediction, that means you won’t be the demographic it gets marketed to or pushed upon.
I suspect you are all too right.
Medicine in the US is very expensive. There is a lot of money in helping with neurological conditions or paralysis.
What if you were going to die but you could live indefinitely if you got the implant? Would an incentive like that interest you?
So like the black mirror episode Common People
Why would a brain implant allow me to live indefinitely?
I would explain it to you - but you would need the brain implant to understand the context completely. Are you interested in getting the implant now?* :)
* (Post may or may not be sponsored by the brain implant company™)
No.
They’ve existed for awhile for people with certain disabilities and further advancements in the field would be great for the people who actually need them, but outside of that niche most people would likely not want to risk a highly invasive surgery and I don’t think they actually care about them.
If they could make them small / sensitive enough to make them subdermal, without the risky brainsurgery, that would be an absolute gamechanger and would increase acceptance by a lot. if the process would be like getting a few piercings under local anesthesia, it would make servicing the hardware much less of a life and death decision, and i wouldn’t mind getting something like that - especially if it’s on the hackability scale of a steam deck lol
Finally, Half-Life 3
Will we also get a control valve back on our heads?
Yes, but it belongs to Gaben. Don’t touch it.
I think we all know where this is going.
- The Brainchip is trendy in Silicon Valley but doesn’t do much yet. The company says cyber-superintelligence will be available in a year, tops. Investors are pouring billions into it. Everyone says you need to hop on the trend now or you’ll be obsolete in six months.
- It’s been two years. The Brainchip still struggles to control a mouse or search Google. Everyone’s lost interest in building apps for it. Many users are reporting severe migraines, but the company says there’s nothing to worry about.
- The Brainchip pipes three unskippable ads directly to your optic nerve every time you go to the bathroom. Notifications ping your brain all day long. You can get it removed if you’ve got $80k to burn, but there’s a high risk of postoperative stroke.
Yeah, no, I’m not putting anything in my brain that isn’t open-source from end to end. And even then probably nah.
the only way, and I mean the ONLY way I’ll put hardware in my brain is if I have resurrection level support like in Altered Carbon.
the fear of losing my outward identity over the ability to live forever is worth losing.
You still won’t be able to live forever.
I wonder how often you have to back up in case you need a reboot.
Why so pessimistic? With any luck brainchips will mean the end of annoying adverts once and for all. You’ll just feel an unexpected desire to acquire certain products. And maybe crippling headaches or a nauseating feeling of unease if you ignore these urges
this isn’t for you, you’re not a paraplegic, are you?
The article does not mention paraplegia.
Why does it have to? All current bci’s are designed for the disabled, why would this one be an exception?
So rich people can make money on the hype and sale of a new product to the masses?
you know, like literally everything?
that’s where regulators step in, do you honestly believe elon musk would not be implanting healthy people with neuralinks if regulators would allow? They won’t, this is tech for people whose lives are so awful that not having one is worse than the things that may go wrong, for a very, very long time.
I didn’t think an old nazi with 32 felonies would be the leader of the free world, I’ve been surprised a few times in my life but nothing really does it anymore.
Can you say your statement could hold up against 50 years of future trends? Transhumanism? Fanatics who want it so bad that they make it law?
For that matter, who’s regulating Ai right now?
No, it won’t hold up for 50 years, but if you don’t want one don’t get it?
The Brainchip is trendy in Silicon Valley but doesn’t do much yet.
These guys would beg to differ:
https://thedebrief.org/neuralinks-first-human-trials-mark-one-year-of-control-through-telepathy/
The picture in the post is unhinged
It’s fairly on brand for Valve, one of their banners was a guy with pipe valve stuck to his head.
More than stuck on
Headlines you didn’t expect to read. Rather a Gabe chip than at Musk chip for sure
how about both of them fuck off and stop shoving their proprietary tech in our heads, just a thought
Valve did contribute quite a bit to OSS iirc
oh sorry just open up my asshole then
I’m not sure that that’s the optimal route to the brain. I’m not a brain doctor though, for all I know suppository-style brain chips are the way to go.
Is there an open source equivalent then?
i don’t know, but for any possible positive use for it, the only legal way must be open source, or else we’re in deus ex territory.
i know fuckwits like elon cannot see past aesthetics so they think it’s cool but brain chips are as close to the Torment Nexus as we can possibly get.
The reality of funding is probably going to mean that open source is off the table.
I’m with you, Elon Musk is a life lesson into why key services such as internet or brain computer interfaces should not be in the hands on the few. Path seems set unfortunately as too much money is on the table.
this is the same thing, publicly owned, publicly funded.
make no mistake, with all the tax cuts and incentives and wage theft involved, these are also already publicly funded.
“Now, if you’re part of Control Group Kepler-Seven, we implanted a tiny microchip about the size of a postcard into your skull. Most likely you’ve forgotten it’s even there, but if it starts vibrating and beeping during this next test, let us know, because that means it’s about to hit five hundred degrees, so we’re gonna need to go ahead and get that out of you pretty fast.” - Cave Johnson
I know the internet lives the guy but no. Just no.
Some people are starting to wake up to the fact that the guy is just another libertarian billionaire, he just happens to be in charge of a company that made a product people love enough to give them monopolistic powers.
Edit: these people aren’t in this thread
Edit 2: first edit was from when the votes on that comment were at -8, happy to see that for once one of my comments on this subject ends up in the positives
You’re not wrong, the downvoters are just sad because you are right. Just takes one personality shift from Gabe to turn him from beloved figurehead to shitty billionaire and being reminded of that sucks.
“one personality shift”
That’s everyone dude. “Bernie Sanders is one personality shift away from being a Maga tech bro.”
Entirely correct. That’s why we shouldn’t put anyone on a pedestal.
He’s also one body shift away from being a giant dragon with adamantium scales…
They’re right next to each other on the monster table.
Eat the Meat!
Sanders doesn’t have control over (probably) thousands of the games you “own” or, if we’re honest, the PC gaming market as a whole.
If you just pay attention more than the average person you quickly realize that he’s already a shitty billionaire.
Steam underage gambling profits him directly.
He owns a yacht collection while his clients can’t afford to own the place they live in. How’s that for an environmental impact?
His reaction to George Floyd’s murder wasn’t that Valve should release a statement as he considered that problematic (source), instead he gave each employee 10k to spend however they felt like. Where I used to work we used to call that a “shut the fuck up”. Employees are complaining about something? Here’s 10k each for them to shut the fuck up. Hell, they could spend that money to finance far right groups if they wanted, Newell didn’t care!
Women employees with managerial positions at Valve? What women employees?
Valve takes a 30% cut but Newell is a billionaire, which means they could afford to take a much smaller cut, he could have hundreds of millions instead and the devs could have more money in their pockets.
I always get shat on for saying they do unregulated gambling, including to minors
People be really defending Valve
I think being on a tech community instead of the gaming ones helps
Eh, probably. They always state how competitors do this and that, and all the good Valve brought with Steam.
Which is true, but they’re blinded by this. Google also brought a lot of good, and bad.
People be really defending Valve
They defend Microsoft and Windows for the same reason. It’s their beloved gaming platform
Pretty sure Musk has had a significant shift. Not saying he started out as a nice normal guy, but something cracked for sure.
We also spend dramatically more now as well and are on an unsustainable path according to the Fed.
People want more spending and less taxes though, as its human nature.
I think despite the claims that Gabe is a Libertarian, first spread by some blogger named Yanis V(?), are floating around the internet: he rarely makes a political statement but did endorse Joe Biden over Trump lending to the idea that he is NOT some sort of anarcho-syndicalist Republican-lite.
It’s been known for quite a while now. Even reddit gets annoyed with the guy.
I even got to downvote that back then!
I’m not even sure if it’s love. When something is all you’ve known, you just view everything else as strange and inferior. When you have so many games and have had so many experiences on Steam, the cognitive dissonance of accepting that Valve is quite problematic could be hard to bear. Knowing that everybody around you praises Steam, with many turning to rage or even harassment when they see competitors like Epic, the fear of being ostracized and ending up in the same position as those competitors is also a strong factor at play.
As someone losing control of their hands and enjoys playing video games, I very much look forward to this technology not only being available via Elon Musk.
The use of the fingers is covered under our monthly plan of $49.99
If you would like thumbs included, that is covered under our premium plan of $499.99 a day.
And I see that but a game developer is not the right type of business to develop these kind of extremely intrusive and potentially dangerous accessibility devices. We need much stricter guidelines and oversight for this kind of tech before they essentially become a remote control for parts of our brain.
had pass on all this bullshit.
This will be for paralyzed people
It will be used for paralyzed people to give it a soft spin, but the goal really is a super soldier or many other applications in the military industrial complex. If it’s not for blowing up people, it’s for killing people or controlling people. It’s not that technology is evil. It’s that our economic system and our mode of production and who benefits. That’s the problem. The rich are just basically building our prison.
Yeah, maybe just leave all that for people born in 2030.
He’ll only be able to make the first prototype, and then a second. He will never make it to 3.
By then he should be able to pass the tech off to a smaller, independent contractor like Gearbox (please don’t; I don’t want Randy in my brain) or Obsidian.
He’ll make a few versions:
- Brain Chip
- Brain Chip Army
- Brain Chip Police
- Brain Chip 2
- Brain Chip 2 Coastal Vacation
- Brain Chip 2.1
- Brain Chip 2.2
- Brain Chip 2 VR
Will never make it to 3 though.
TIL Valve is into brain chips.
The Valve Deckard was a little more ambitious than had been originally anticipated.
To be fair, I think it’s specifically Gabe who’s been obsessed with brain computer interfaces for the past many years. Obviously it’s his company, so Valve by extension participates.
Makes sense, as you get older you get more and more disgusted by the weakness of your flesh, and tend to crave the certainty of steel.
As far as I can see the company behind it (Starfish Neuroscience) is not affiliated with Valve in any way? (Aside from having the same CEO)
And Newell is Valve because it’s his private company
