They ain’t raping their fellow rich kin. This shit is classist, they don’t view the poor as people to be respected.
The fact that representatives knew this happened, and accepted basically “if you step down from taking your next roll, we’ll ignore it”. Shows how absolutely every representative that wasn’t screaming about it should be in prison right now… Which means near all reps in Florida, and many in U.S. Congress.
Also, token: Desantis absolutely allowed this to be covered up for political reasons/gain
They also know that the poor are absolutely powerless, especially considering the enormity of resources rich politicians have at their disposal.
This is it. I don’t think they have particular respect for the offspring of other wealthy elites either, they just know there is power and money protecting/ defending the children of the elites if anything happens to them. These people don’t have respect for anything but themselves. They’ve just gotten where they are by having a keen instinct for self-interest and preservation.
They identify with wealth and power. People who have that are their people.
had sex withwas raped byFTFY
Not how rapes work but okay. Not trying to be contrarian here, Gaetz is a POS. Just think sex work has a place and isn’t rape.
I’d imagine being underaged and unable to consent makes it rape
Oh missed that part, yeah it’s rape
deleted by creator
It’s fine, people can read the replies.
Setting aside that statutory rape is still rape… sex work for 17-year olds has a place? WTF…
^*ladies and gentlemen, the result of the rape culture we live in.
A powerful, older man took advantage of a young, desperate woman, but because he did not physically assault her, it’s not rape.
Rape is about POWER, not sex.
Yup, just because she might have said yes doesn’t mean it was ok. The whole situation is just slimy.
While it doesn’t make Gaetz not a shitbag, unless the article is wrong he wasn’t the person who solicited her, set it up, or paid her. It’s also still statutory even if she lied about her age and had a false ID (and we don’t know if Gaetz was actually lied to and checked her ID), but I am not sure if this is a good example of rape culture.
100% unequal power dynamics being a rich politician sleeping with an 18 year old escort at a party, but in the case all parties are 18 or older is it sex work or rape?
Joel Greenberg, the one who actually met her and did the soliciting and paid her, was charged and convicted for child sex trafficking and ID fraud/identity theft for this. I am pleasantly surprised he was both charged and convicted given track records on both of those things. If 11 years is a sufficient sentence is another story.
Dude , you are still explaining away an adult man fucking an underaged girl in an extreme power imbalance. He knew what he was doing, he knew she was underaged. That he had people help facilitate the rape does not make it less of one.
A 40 year old who needs to ID the woman he’s paying to have sex with knows EXACTLY what he was doing.
The 40 year old ID-ing the women he has sex with at a party is icky for sleeping with someone half his age (double so if he is specifically looking for 18 year olds), but that is not illegal. Should that be lumped under rape culture though? Should sex work in general be lumped under rape culture?
If she was not 18, regardless of if she had a fake ID, it is still statutory. There is no mens rea required for statutory. It is however harder in such a case to secure prosecution and conviction.
He may very well have known his friend brought an underage girl to sleep with him, or asked him to find probable underage girls advertising as 18 for plausible deniability. He also may have paid his friend to pay for prostitutes for the party. I won’t give Gaetz the benefit of the doubt on anything, but the article doesn’t indicate any of those things happened.
At least we got a conviction for the person with the least plausible deniability, because we rarely get that unfortunately.
Christ man, you are still lawyering this away.
Yes, the power dynamic of old dude and young women are part of tape culture. Yes, sex work is part of rape culture (it’s nuanced but in this case YES). I’m not anti sex-work, but I am against a system that makes it illegal, and creates a black market like this.
You can come up with all the hypotheticals to make it right, it wasn’t. You are defending rape culture.
Rape culture is a culture that makes excuses for and enables rapists. Look who’s in the government right now. We ALL know gates is creepy as shit yet he still attained a position of extreme power. Look at the president, all his friends falling out of the emails. There is a major problem with this kind of behavior in our culture.
Edit- look, we’re missing each other because I am arguing a larger cultural issue, you are arguing specific laws (why I say you are lawyering). I do not care how legal this might have been and I am not given to charitable interpretations of obvious evil behavior.
Edit- look, we’re missing each other because I am arguing a larger cultural issue, you are arguing specific laws
That was the only thing I was actually asking about. I especially agree with your points about our government/politicians. It appears that the main disagreement we might have is if rape culture is the normalization/glorification of sexual assault specifically or a wider classification of power dynamics in any form.
I think anyone who commits the crime of rape is a rapist and rightly so, but am just leery about watering down the definition of rape.
I do not care how legal this might have been
I want to be clear that it wasn’t legal. Gaetz 100% committed statutory rape under current criminal law. It’s a strict accountability law, you don’t have to knowingly do it to commit the crime.
The only reason I posted at all was that after reading the article I didn’t think the persons comment you replied to was necessarily a great example of rape culture.
She legally couldn’t consent. That’s statutory rape
I mean, this is a textbook example of statutory rape. He paid an underage girl $400 to show up to a party with the implication of sex, gave her cocaine and ecstasy, and then had sex with her. The state recognizes that rape can occur even if the victim was otherwise willing. The “statutory” part of statutory rape means the prosecutor is required by statute to assume a rape occurred, even if the victim does not agree with the prosecution.
The state acknowledges that there are circumstances where a reasonable person would determine that a victim wasn’t capable of consenting. To be able to prosecute these cases, the state passes statutes to assign a penalty on the assaulter for statutory rape. This statute allows the prosecution to charge for rape, even if the victim was enthusiastically consenting and/or does not feel like they have been assaulted.
For example, if a cop detains someone, then has sex with them in the back of their cruiser. A reasonable state would recognize the unfair power dynamic in this situation, and a reasonable jury member would acknowledge that the detainee was under duress when the sex occurred. Even if the detainee was enthusiastic and willing, they were legally unable to consent because of the power dynamic that was present during the sex. There’s no way of factually proving if the detainee was/is actually willing, or just playing along because the cop held an inordinate amount of power over them. And thus a reasonable state would assume the latter, and statutorily assign a penalty to the person who held the power (the cop, in this example). And this statutory penalty would be enforced by prosecuting the cop for statutory rape.
And “being too young” is one of the biggest and most (in)famous reasons that someone can’t consent. The state sets an age limit on when children can begin consenting to sex with adults. Otherwise willing children below that age are assumed to be groomed (like a 30 year old “dating” a 15 year old) or under some other kind of unfair power dynamic.
If you’re trying to say that it’s unfair that Gaetz was tricked into sex with a minor, that’s a separate discussion. He took that risk when he knowingly paid a homeless person for sex. He knew there was an inherent power imbalance. If he wanted to avoid the power imbalance, he could have used a legal brothel that has a hiring and vetting process designed to preclude underage children from being hired. Hell, he could have worked as a lawmaker to decriminalize sex work and make brothels legal in his area. He could have ensured that people (including himself) didn’t feel the need to pay streetwalkers for sex, because legal brothels were accessible.
But he didn’t do that. He sought out a sex worker who looked young, fully knowing and accepting that there were no systems in place to stop her from lying about her age, and he was willing to take on the risk of statutory rape by choosing to sleep with her.
I know you’re getting down voted to oblivion but I know what idea you’re trying to get across. She was underage so at the very least it was statutory. But even if she wasn’t underage it was coerced and she was being manipulated to do something she likely didn’t want to do to pay for something she desperately needed. Now if she wasn’t underage it technically still was prostitution but significantly different than a rape if it was indeed consensual but who knows.
Illegal or not it was wrong and these douchebags can get away with anything which boils my backside.
It’s fine, points and internet strangers don’t matter as much as they’d like too. We can still have a nuanced discussion, you just need to ignore the people who feed off their internet addiction to outrage and thinking clicking a thumbs down on a keyboard fulfills their social duties. I didn’t notice the underage part which is clearly problematic and changes the discussion and yes we need a society that discourages this type of behavior.
That happens, not a big deal but you can’t really complain about internet outrage addicts and lack of nuance when you’re the one who rushed into a thread without even taking enough time to properly understand the headline let alone read the article and immediately tried to correct someone who was objectively right.
Okay I’ll be more careful next time. I don’t spend a lot of time here and it’s usually on the fly. I don’t mind lurking more given how some people wrote like a five page rebuttal.
Put the phone down, go do something for someone you love dammit.
This is very true. Up and down doesn’t really lend itself to nuance does it?
Daaaamn, I have never seen anyone get NO upvotes at all on Lemmy
I’ve seen it on occasion (and probably been on the receiving end myself). It’s almost more damning than being downvoted to oblivion. It’s like that Mad Men scene when Don Draper is like “I don’t think about you at all”
Uh, this is the definition of statutory rape:
Statutory rape is the crime of sex with a minor when the sex is agreed to by both parties, not forced.
So… no… it’s still rape.
Please… please I beg of you, do not try to argue that 17 is basically 18. Please. I have had too much of pedophile talk recently.
I have nothing against sex work, but this was not sex work; this was a goddan tragedy created by a bunch of monsters who created the current situation in which this can happen in the first place.
Just one more reason why they want to keep you poor. So they can do shit like that. And worse.
This is a category of sex work. There is sex work in which adults choose that it’s labor they’d prefer to participate in, I support that sex work. Then there’s a long spectrum that ends in places like this. You can’t criminalize this stuff away. When minors are so desperate they’re selling sex you need to look at the material root causes
There are recordings of an interview with a historian in which Sylvia Rivera talks about how she got into sex work as a child. It’s heartbreaking and infuriating and more than anything it’s a condemnation of the circumstances in which she lived.
Single Payer Healthcare now and it better include dental and gender affirming care
The fact that these cases always seem to end with “DOJ declined to bring charges” or some similar fate is disgusting
these are the types of stories we need to hold when we push for medicare care, housing, food for ALL
Hold in what way?
I meant, hold up. There is no better example of how depriving people of the rights to basic necessities exposes the most vulnerable to exploitation.
That poor girl, so desperate that she had sex with someone who looks like a cephalopod.
had sex withwas raped byFixed that for you.
Everyone pay attention to how quickly nothing is done about this.
But the headline says “devastating.” Surely there will be devastation.
For once I would like to see the powerful people feel devastated
Such devastation will not be self-inflicted. It can be dealt only by the oppressed.
Ahhhh so this is why they want to make everyone poor
This is one of the reasons, unironically.
If that doesn’t appeal to you then you can work in a restaurant like the one Quiet and her brother work in Twisted Metal.
Or sent to clean up nuclear waste like in Handmaid’s Tale
Pfff… Devastating… Par for the course, you mean.
Yep, that’s the American healthcare system in a nutshell.
That explains why the US has no proper health care system…
Not sure if you’re joking but yes. The profit of deprivation is exploitation.
Pretty much. The rich want to be able to grab a rando off the streets and abuse them as they see fit.
Yet another beautiful story about how a young person has to sell their youth in order to afford medical care in America.
Deeply /s
Wait till you hear what the biggest attraction of the US Military is…
It’s to get the hell out of middle of nowhere dead end towns. At least that was the draw when I was in, as well as my cousins, and father.
If your father did it and you ended up joining for that reason… then maybe it wasn’t really effective?
He got the hell out of Marietta Georgia, and managed to buy land in Indiana. We also have a history of being in the Navy since well before the country was founded.
Are you saying one of your ancestors was a turncoat?
Technically yes. Rev. David Rice. He sold most of The Virginia Colony and raised 1.5 million pounds of silver, which he gave to his good friends Tom, Ben, and Jim to help fund the US Army and US Navy. IIRC the exchange rate at the time was 4 or 5 British Pounds to a pound of silver.
I’m certain the British consider him a traitor to the crown.
I think it’s very nifty to have a familial connection like that to notable historical events.
Maybe if someone enlisted long enough to get the GI bill for education and used it things would be different, but if one only does short military time and leaves with no further self-improvement the odds of being better off financially probably aren’t great.
When all else fails, become a mercenary. I get it.
if you yourself need the medical care, you don’t get in.
I really do miss Tricare. Not worth being married though. I decided I’ll just die lol.
Yes US healthcare sucks. And this particular story sucks. And Matt Gaetz sucks. But I just want to mention that many other countries with superior healthcare systems also suck when it comes to dental care. Despite the fact that a bad dental situation can have devastating health consequences for the whole body.
That’s nice, good job muddying the waters.
In how many of those other countries are minors tempted to perform sexual acts on government officials to receive said shitty dental care?
Like I said I’m not excusing either Gaetz or the US. I also wonder whether she would have been more comfortable leaving her teeth crooked if she weren’t in the US, unless it caused health or eating issues.
But it’s here on Lemmy, and in years past on the other place, where I have heard people’s frustration about teeth being separated as “luxury bones” under even the best healthcare systems. It goes back through history, separate schools, but the more we learn the more obvious it seems that dental care is healthcare.
From what I’ve read and heard, many poor people just don’t get any dental care, whatever country they’re in.
I wish for her sake she’d been able to find an orthodontia school where she could have gotten her braces from a student under the supervision of a professor.
Sorry, but talking about how dental care sucks in other places too, in a post about dental services being rendered in exchange for statutory rape, sure does sound like making excuses.
Well of course it’s not, there’s no excuse. Gaetz is a predator who exploited and raped her, full stop.
Having teeth is a luxury for the rich.
You say /s, but there is a lot of truth to this.
Everyday, innocent women & girls sell their bodies to the highest bidder. It’s disgusting.
What’s disgusting is that this girl was forced to do it due to her circumstances.
No she wasn’t.
Perhaps coerced fits your mental map better?
Yes she was. Look up consent laws.
Every job involves selling your body to the highest bidder. Your attitude only serves to harm people in the sex industry.
Sex work is legitimate work. It’s only exploitative and dangerous because it’s (mostly) illegal, not the other way around.
Sex trafficking, OTOH, is absolutely vile. It’s basically sexual slavery. But it wouldn’t happen if sex work was legalized and regulated!
EDIT: this guy thinks AI child pr0n is “just trolling”. Fucking ewww
What’s exploitative and dangerous was that this girl was forced to do it due to her circumstances. Whether or not sex work should be legal is irrelevant.
Did you missed the part in the title that says she was UNDERAGE and HOMELESS?
Btw, that is a rethorical question. Feel free to answer if you do, but I’m not going to reply.
Always knew this sanctimonious douchebag was a creep. Now it looks like he’s a criminal one.
Is anyone surprised?
I mean we already knew that, too. But victimizing a homeless girl is a whole new level of creep.
There have been reports of this asshole being a pedo for years. But ever since covid, I honestly couldn’t tell you if it was during the early Biden administration or a decade ago
I just assumed that he’d always been rapng children.
He used to rape children. He still does, but he used to too
Unfortunately this will only make him more likeable by Republican voters, seeing as they support pedophiles.
Let’s be fair. Some of his voters are already convicted sex offenders and are no longer eligible to vote.
I expect that ICE will escort such convicts to the polls.
They just get pardons and then join ICE.
We don’t even talk about him adopting a 14 year old boy when he was 25. Normal , right?
As normal as a 15 year old dating a 39 year old then becoming President of France. Normal.
the magic 24 year marker, same age difference as Donald and Melania. But that’s true love.
Both were well into adulthood when they met. And also not her teacher. Try again.
I lived in Okaloosa county for five years. It’s an area ripe for exploitation and Gaetz has been doing so most of his life thanks to his daddy.
It’s not a crime if you’re a politician bro with pale skin.
Don’t worry, I’m sure someone will SLAM him for it and then we will see some real consequences.
I’m hoping he gets SLAMMED and then GRILLED. That’ll show 'em.
“It’s not like it was an 8-year old”
- Megyn Kelly
FYI megyn has a 14 year old daughter.
There is no bottom to these people.
secret
I hid one post, I’m a fraud
