Stop all infant genital mutilation.
Not just circumcision but also de-intersex-ification.
When a baby is born with both types of genitals what usually happens is that the male ones are immediately removed and the person is raised as a woman. This is unethical. The infant cannot consent to being mutilated, it is an infant. Ban this barbaric practice.
I feel like I missed about 10 layers of context here… and I’m not sure I want them 😭
Good to see these young heros fighting the good fight
religion is a poison
And culture to a point. My family is from India and places more importance on social standing and “what others think” than personal freedom or happiness. That’s why I never have plans to tell my parents I’m gay. I see my uncles and aunts refuse to accept that their kids married non-Indians. I can only imagine how my parents would react to being a gay man.
oh hi vanta 👋 :)
I’ve never understood it, even for religious reasons. It’s not medically necessary, and it weakens your sex organ’s ability to do the thing it is supposed to do.
It actually is medically necessary if the foreskin is too tight (phimosis). I had it done on the doctor’s recommendation and my sex life life greatly improved. But this was as an adult, so not really the same thing.
Yeah, but that’ super rare. Only around 0.6% of boys experience it before they’re 15. Even if you’re born with true pathological phimosis, circumcision is usually a last resort because topical steroids are safer and have a pretty high success rate.
“The incidence of pathological phimosis is 0.4 per 1000 boys per year or 0.6% of boys are affected by their 15th birthday.”
penis != boy
better terminology could be used.
it weakens your sex organ’s ability to do the thing it is supposed to do.
I thought you didn’t understand?
Fair enough. But if that’s the point…why? You’d just be making it harder to reproduce at that point
Its no harder to reporduce, just doesn’t feel as good
For cultural reasons, it probably developed as a valuable tribal in-grouping check.
How do we know for sure you are one of us and not a spy or an infiltrator… Well, if you are an ancient Tribal Jewish person you have a special trick to prove you are in the group.
Please send a dick pic to verify allegiance
Calling unnecessary circumcision of boys “genital mutilation” sounds frivolous because it makes it sound like you’re placing it alongside FGM in terms of its effects and severity. But it is nevertheless genital mutilation, by just about any definition you care to put forward. The men living in the non-circumcision-crazed countries of the world aren’t constantly having their blackened rotten cocks drop off from all the dick disease they’re allegedly exposed to by having an intact penis, so I don’t understand why you would feel the need to do this to your kid without a specific medical reason (of which there are very few that require surgical removal of the skin).
“But if you don’t wash it, it gets dickcheese!” and the solution to that is slicing the fucking skin off of it? The clue is in the warning: wash it. Teach your sons to care for their wilberts. Telling them to lather up their bellend in the shower is hardly something that needs prompting anyway.
Personal/intimate hygiene should be part of regular schooling. Not even as part of sex ex, just “how to care for your vessel” kinda shit. Don’t drink to excess, walk and move at least 10 minutes a day, stay away from illegal drugs, be careful with prescription drugs, and wash your bastard stinksausage.
stay away from illegal drugs
No, just be careful and make sure that you understand what you’re doing.
As an American who wasn’t circumcised, this country is so fucking weird about it. Like I got teased for it occasionally. People talk about hygiene, but from what I hear you’re unlikely to find a guy who cleans his asshole but not his foreskin. Like, do what you want with your body, get circumcised if you want, bifurcate the thing if you want, I don’t even have a dick anymore, but circumcising babies is taking that freedom away from them for reasons that always sound ludicrous to me.
And for the attractiveness thing, I’ve had exes who think foreskin is really hot, and personally I think dicks look super weird without it.
There was an uncircumcised kid at my daycare we made fun of. We didn’t know why his was different than ours and thought HE was the weird one. Turns out no, it was our dumbass parents and the asshole doctors who did that to us that were the problem.
It’s interesting that the pro circumcision crowd who rant about hygiene don’t support girls having their labia cut off to prevent grime from accumulating between the folds. Circumcision should be reserved for actual medical reasons, like phimosis, and if possible at age of consent.
If you don’t wash behind your ears, bacteria will grow and cause it to smell. By their logic, they should be chopping off ears as well.
The purpose of circumcision is to make maturation and sex less pleasurable as it removes about 1/3 of sensory nerves and meant to make it more difficult to masturbate because you can’t just pull on tight skin. You can still perform the basic acts of sex and masturbation, but it’s not as pleasurable. Likewise, one can still hear without ears even if it’s not as good as those with intact ears.
Just goes to show how insane these people are.
Jeez, if you make masturbation MORE pleasurable, teenage boys will never get anything done. It would single-handedly (pun not intended, but I’ll take it) crash the gaming industry.
The “hygiene” argument just shows me how backwards Americans are
Have the stupid cunts not heard of soap?
More like everyone’s too socially awkward to want to discuss any form of hygiene directly. Kinda wild really.
As a young child I didn’t know I had to wash between my toes, and I got athletes foot.
If only a kind doctor had cut all my toes off when I was born.
What is this “soap” you speak of?
You are meant to wash under the foreskin obviously but only with water. Soap is generally considered too harsh for that area
But obviously there are times one uses soap. It’s part inside, part outside. You have to keep outside out of inside.
and if possible at age of consent.
While I agree with the majority of the argument, I don’t agree with this point. Age of consent is mainly a political thing, disregarding the actualities involved with teenagers and sexual life, and discrediting those who have problems before that set age.
Biologically, pubescence which is around 13 is where this decision should be undertaken, as this is the point where the individual is sexually mature.
Medical problems start before the age of consent so the individuals which are sexually mature should have the option to treat this condition.
The age of consent is not the age of sexual maturity for a reason. Girls as young as 6 can start their periods and can get pregnant, but they’re not mature enough to make informed decisions about their reproductive health, or really anything in general.
Yes that is correct, but you’re misinterpreting my initial argument. As by sexual maturity I mean the average age of sexual maturity which as implied within my statement was 13.
But, alas. It is a problem on my end with my argument not being clear enough on that - I can thank you on pointing that error out.
Kinda fucked up how people basically ignore the fact that we do genital mutilation in America.
Yeah but it’s to boys so who cares? /s
Its actually hurtful to watch the strong opposition to cirumcision involving girls yet barely any opposition involving boys. It looks like another take on sexism and like one commenter said, it makes it more difficult for trans people.
Circumcision for both genders should only be a medical decision, not a thing you or your parents decide just because.
I get where you’re coming from, and I absolutely don’t want to minimise anyone’s pain, but circumcision is not really equivalent to FGM in terms of consequences.
graphic detail
Often FGM includes removal of the clitoris and some of the vulva, leaving girls with a tiny aperture sealed with scar tissue requiring new fully torn flesh to achieve penetration, and girls and women who have been mutilated in this way are usually unable to feel any pleasure during sex, only pain. FGM much more like having the whole glans chopped off and half of the two sides of the wound sewn together than it is like male circumcision.
Feel very free to firmly oppose circumcision, but please don’t suggest that FGM is the same. It really really really isn’t. It’s very very different in what’s removed, very very different in how much ongoing pain it causes, very very different in the effect on sensation, and it’s not equivalent.
It’s like suggesting that it’s not fair that people treat cars running into people so much seriously than bikes running into people, except everyone, whether they ride a bicycle or a car, can see how incorrect that is, whereas a vast number of prior have no idea how brutal FGM is, which is how you end up with people claiming circumcision is just as bad. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s bad. But it’s in a whole different level and world of consequences for the girl than for the boy.
I agree but you’re missing the point. It’s (primarily) not about the harm it does, it’s about consent not having been given. Newborns cannot consent to such things. They cannot make such a decision. Parents do not have the right to make such a decision, nor does anyone except the person themself.
Millions of newborns are forced into various religions without their consent. Basing your argument off of consent only is kinda a wash argument unless your willing to fight all the other thing parents do to their children without their consent.
Yeah, men aren’t allowed to talk about it. If we do, we’re questioning doctors, so we look stupid, and we’re questioning women, who all (in my experience) say they aesthetically prefer it, so we look sexist. We’re never going to win with that opposition. That’s why it’s not even a topic of discussion. It’s been decided for us, and we didn’t get a vote.
That why they do it to us as babies, so we can’t fight it. If they waited, we’d NEVER do it.
Not having kids, but it was done to me and I’m fine with it.
I’ve been in a relationship for ages now, but before that all the womem I asked said that preferred cut over uncut. Literally. All. Of. Them. It was at least a dozen.
But hey, don’t let me disrupt this whole… Uhh… Thing you guys got going on this thread.
If you are fine with being circumcised, that seems like the best possible outcome and I’m glad you are happy with your body in that way. However, many people were circumcised and are not fine with it. After all, it is a choice made for them without their consent. Also, it shouldn’t matter what women prefer. It should be your body, your choice. If someone wants to get circumcised later in life, that is their choice.
Literally no thoughtful or reasonable sexual partner is going to say they prefer the type of penis it’s impossible for you to have, so that data is wildly biased.
I’m a woman and I’ve been with both. I don’t really care either way (and I feel confident most women who have actually been with both don’t really care) but my best lasting lover by far was uncut. I will not circumcise any sons I have.
Also in America cut is so normal that people may prefer it because they’re used to it.
But also, it’s fucking wild to argue to cut a piece off your baby’s genitals because of what future partners may mildly prefer. I wasn’t circumcised because my mom was firmly against the practice and I’m grateful for that.
And to add my anecdotes, back when I had a dick the foreskin never got in the way of me getting laid, and one ex was super excited to learn I had it.
You’re obviously American, as were the women
It’s ok, we in the civilised world already think you’re stupid, your attitude towards mutilating the dicks of little boys is just another reason why we do.
Men in many African countries also overwhelmingly prefer their women cut. Coincidence?
The mistake in all of this discussion is making those who are circumsized feel ashamed about it at all. No one should feel bad about being circumsized.
Now that that’s out of way, that’s a pretty weak counterargument. Your justification for why we should keep doing it is that society prefers it? That’s exactly the thing that’s finally being pushed back against. It’s inherently a barbaric practice that serves no medical purpose (for the large majority) and is purely aesthetic, and we’re doing it to newborn babies so they can look like their daddies and keep the social norm alive.
You don’t have anything to feel bad about and it’s great that it hasn’t been a hindrance for you, but as soon as one generation stops, your argument will be moot.
The only shaming I’ve seen in this thread so far is of the parents who made that decision, and rightly so. People like the guy you replied to are perpetuating the issue by being so nonchalant about it.
People prefer what’s familiar, in cultures where it’s not the norm they prefer uncut.
Yes, because that’s what they’re used to. That’s not nothing. But in Australia I’ve had the opposite experience. Every single one saying they prefer uncut. It’s just what you’re exposed to.
it’s wild to me how many let this one thing dominate their entire identity and rail against their parents for it.
Our parents are fallible. Its okay to point out the fucked up shit they did to us and say “this shit is fucked up”
if you lost a whole inch from your circumcision, they did it wrong.
that said, when I was around 18 or so, I really had it out with my parents over circumcising me. at 47, I’m still unhappy about it.
It’s unconsentual genital mutilation of babies, a beyond cruel excercise - unless there is a clear medical reason
I don’t believe there is any medically justified reason beyond what would require anything to be amputated. All of the “medical reasons” people tout are thin bullshit. Anything people have claimed could be accomplished with much less invasive procedures. I’m furious and deeply hurt my parents did this to me. The whole reason is to reduce sensation during sex because sex is a “sin”. My parents had the fucking gall to tell me looking at porn will impact my relationships after doing this shit to me.
All of the “medical reasons” people tout are thin bullshit.
“it gets gross if you dont wash it” THEN FUCKING WASH IT IDIOT
Yep, right on. There can be a need for it when the foreskin is too tight during puberty, but it doesn’t fully pull back until that time in a boy’s life anyway so the circumcision is not necessary from birth, apart from maybe in the case of a rare deformity.
In my twenties I’ve caught a fungus down there. It caused some scarring on the foreskin. Basically it got tighter, so much so that undoing (what’s the term??) it during erections was painful.
The doctor said I needed to be circumcised, so I got the surgery. Healing was not too bad and I can’t say it had any lasting impact (in sensitivity or otherwise).
EDIT:
I lie. There is a lasting impact — I can no longer wank without lubrication. With foreskin I had no need for it.Balanitis, doctor told me the same thing. I said fuck that, managed to stretch the skin back into functioning properly. Painful as fuck but worth it.
Are you sure you are not a chick though?
what??? how is this relevant
I am yes. I also have a circumcised penis. What is your point?
Maybe you don’t lose an inch of penis length, but perhaps you do lose an inch of skin.
But I agree this is stupid because 99.99% of people are going to think “penis length.”
This is perhaps the dumbest circumcision awareness sign I’ve seen. And I support the cause.
I didn’t even know I was circumcised at birth until like halfway through highschool and I didn’t really care after finding out. And having now seen penises that are uncircumcised, I’m kinda glad I was. From my perspective, it didn’t hurt and I didn’t even know until 17ish years later. Everything works perfectly normally.
All of that was a buildup to a genuine question of why do you feel so upset by it? I don’t mean to be argumentative or dismissive, just want to see the point of view from someone else
How can you know that everything works perfectly normally if you’ve never experienced life with a foreskin?
we all have our own feelings about it. I’m not trying to say that the way you feel about your own circumcision is right or wrong, or how any man who decides - on their own, as an informed adult - is right or wrong to do so.
but I would vehemently argue that it is an adult man’s decision to make, not a parent’s decision to make for their infant son-- unless some medical condition makes it necessary to do so at that time (which are quite rare). and, yes, I understand that there are religious considerations, but, as an atheist, I’m not so sympathetic to that, either, as I classify all genital mutilation in the same category, regardless of age or gender: it is a decision to be made by the subject of the procedure, and only when they are a consenting, informed adult.
As a follow on, is your username supposed to be “Holmes” but you decided to wing it on the spelling test?
I’m also circumcised and find getting bent out of shape over it 18 years later to be… an unusual response.
Edit: Hey Lemmy Weiner police! Be sure to bitch out your parents if you haven’t, it will definitely be helpful in some way!
sybau
aww, did that sound good before you posted it?
Yep! After too!
You were wrong, unfortunately
It’s like that sometimes 🤷
If we were a couple of dudes negging on each other in a bar over whiskey shots, I’d put up with this, because we’d end up hooking up in the end, but online? There’s no goddamn point.
Later
It’s true. Chatting about circumcision in a bar most often ends in showing each other your dicks.
Cya.
What a fucking weird opener. “Your username is a common usage word im gonna claim you meant something else and accuse you of mispelling”
🤷 it got you talking didn’t it?
As someone who was circumcised for the ‘medical hygiene’ reasons when it was more popular I am sick and tired of seeing all circumcision lumped together as mutilation. Sure it was probably unnecessary as I am not aware of having a condition that made it necessary in my case, but it was well done and everything has been positive for me. Those that get it done for medical reasons being called mutilation would be offensive.
It certainly should end as a practice, especially as a religious practice done by non-medically trained people, but stigmatizing people who had it done as being mutilated is insulting.
Edit: your downvotes won’t convince me that I am a victim of mutilation because doctors were wrong about the hygiene benefits five decades ago
I was circumcized as an infant without my consent, and my mutilated dick wants you to stop downplaying the severity of its fate.
A piece of me is literally missing, and you want to say I’m not mutilated because that would offend you? Why, do you have uncomfortable feelings about your own situation that you refuse to examine?
Me not wanting to be labeled as mutilated doesn’t invalidate your identification as mutilated.
If you consider yourself mutilated, then yes, you are mutilated. I am not mutilated because we see our personal experiences differently.
Yes but it shouldn’t be done to infants because they did not and cannot consent.
You can’t know whether the infant will come to see it as mutilation. And it is irreversible.
Circumcision is and should only be a medically necessary procedure. I’ve never heard anyone say medically necessary circumcision is mutilation, but I’m from Europe where most men aren’t circumcised, so there’s that. Whoever says it’s mutilation when it’s medically justified is ignorant.
I think the question is: who’s deciding what is medically necessary or justified? Because as far as I am aware there are health benefits associated with a circumcision, from reduced risk of AIDS infection to the reduced risk of infections.
Is that enough to justify it? Some doctors will say yes, and some will say no. Some people will suffer negative consequences and some won’t.
I think most of the negativity around it is because it’s being done on infants, and often for religious reasons. But to the intentions matter, when the action is in line with medicine?
Mastectomy reduces the risk of breast cancer. That’s clearly not a valid medical reason to perform it on everyone. The medical necessity that people are talking about here is obvious–a specific condition like phimosis that is directly harmful to the patient. The “risk of AIDS” bullshit can be totally mitigated by… washing up.
Even if it was ‘well done’, you have literally lost nerves and sensitivity in the region leading to an objectively worse experience.
The solution is obvious, don’t chop kids genitals for no legitimate reason. Doesn’t matter if you came out okay or whatever nonsense.
This is true. I was circumcized as an infant, and when I started having sex around 19, I wondered why it didn’t feel as good as it was supposed to. I thought I was doing something wrong.
So I tried harder and harder, inexperienced as I was, and didn’t learn how to make sweet, gentle love until much later. Even then, it was more for my partner’s pleasure, because my dick just isn’t that sensitive.
It caused a lot of problems in my relationships early on. Frustration and feelings of inadequacy on both sides, because I was “
hard to satisfy” literally unable to feel satisfactory pleasure…As a man that got circumcised in adulthood, I can’t confirm any loss of sensitivity.
Religion is not an excuse for child abuse
Without arguing either for or against the practice, losing feeling is an outdated idea. It’s been studied and shown that circumcised men are just as sensitive as uncircumcised
Source?
How does that even make sense?
That is non-figuratively impossible. You can’t feel anything with nerve endings that have been removed.
Nerve endings in the foreskin are not that sensitive to sexual stimuli, I would consider that as much loss of sensitivity as amputating a leg is loss of sensitivity.
The brain is weird and whacky the way it works. It has a sort of auto-gain. The less nerve stimulus over time leads to a higher sensitivity of remaining nerves. Often when people lose a limb, they still feel pain in it - the lack of nerve signals causes the remaining nerve endings to be amplified so much that despite not even having pain receptors, the noise signals are perceived as pain. So a human growing up with a cut forskin simply adapts and the brain perceives more sensitivity from the other nerves to produce the same levels of sensation.
Those that get it done for medical reasons being called mutilation would be offensive.
Right, because they weren’t mutilated, they had to have a procedure done for a medical reason.
Any non-medically necessary surgery to a child’s genitals is mutilation. They have no way to consent, and anything short of a medical necessity is the parent making massive changes to their child’s life based on their preferences. To make the point crystal clear:
- If I have a kid and the arm ends up gangrenous, we would remove it as it would be medically necessary for the child’s well-being
- If I have a kid and think it’s cool to have one arm, I would be trying to mutilate my child by removing it for no reason
How is performing a medically unnecessary surgery on a child’s genitals not mutilation? Again, you’re changing their body surgically without their consent for no reason aside from ignorant beliefs.
I dislike the ‘mutilated’ label being applied and take it as an insult because of the negative connotations despite not personally having any downsides. It is like claiming that everyone who is overweight based on BMI is unhealthy despite many athletes having a high BMI due to having a lot of muscle.
Plus the person I was responding to said adults who voluntarily chose to get circumcised are mutilated themselves. With that logic ear piercings and voluntarily removing annoying, but not medically probematic moles is mutilation. My point is that you can’t just ignore the negative connotations and use a broad brush to describe people while claiming it is technically accurate.
No, it should not be done to babies without a medical necessity. That doesn’t mean calling everyone who has been circumcised mutilated won’t come across as insulting.
The negitive connotations are justified in this case
How do you feel about female infants getting their ears pierced?
Also, removing an arm and removing some skin is really not the same. Specially considering that removing that skin has proven health benefits for the baby.
I am sick and tired of seeing all circumcision lumped together as mutilation
it’s the definition of the word. sure, it carries a lot of negative connotations that may not have affected you the same way, and you may have, personally, appreciated your circumcision, but that doesn’t invalidate the feelings of others. this isn’t some zero-sum situation where other people being upset about it somehow invalidated your experience.
Many people can feel different ways about things. That’s called society. A key part of civilization is our ability to all live together with many different people feeling different ways about things. In fact, a huge advance in civilization - no shit - is that, several thousand years ago, we stop killing each other over this very issue. REALLY.
In a much more contemporary context, it’s just not necessary. Most recently, as recently as the late 1970s and early 1980s, a now-debunked study pushed the idea that it was, at least “more hygienic” to circumcise males, but that was based on shaky and now-debunked studies. In modern medicine, circumcision is no longer recommended at birth except in rare cases of medical necessity of urinary or other birth defects. Exceptions also exist in some religions, Judaism most prominently, not for medical necessity, but as an alignment with a belief based on ancient mythology, not unlike the genital mutilations some women undergo in Islam — also widely/globally denounced.
Uh, no kidding dude.
I get a mutilated finger lopped off its a procedure to save my life / improve its quality.
But cutting off a healthy one because religion / aesthetics is just fucking bananas
I mean, you lost a significant amount of your sensory nerves in your penis, but you do you.
Anyway, I fucking didn’t do it to my kids because it is unconscionable to mutilate a child’s (possibly) completely functional penis for aesthetic reasons.
BTW, You are bragging that you happened to be lucky. Many are not.
So the problem is a lot of Americans/Catholics think a circumcision is something responsible adults do to their children to help them avoid potential health problems. They also erroneously believe the foreskin serves no purpose and is one of those we evolved with it, but it is useless kind of things.
They dont know the truth that it actually has a large number of nerve endings and its removal was originally pushed for to reduce the pleasure boys felt from masturbation, in the hope they would not masturbate. Because sex should only be for reproduction according to those who originally pushed for circumcision… It is like what is done to some women in muslim communities. Difference being woman have even more nerve endings in the clitoris and men can still experience some pleasure without the foreskin, but much less. This is why circumcision is often considered mutilation, except for those rare medical exceptions. Parents are unknowingly removing their childs right to sexual pleasure under the guise it is for their health.
It really needs to end as simple hygiene is all that is needed for the health reasons.
As a circumcised man, who was once a teenage boy, I’m surprised that generation after generation of men who’d also been circumcised teenage boys never acknowledged “ya know, this doesn’t do a goddamn thing to keep’em from beatin’ their dicks”. But science and logic has never been religion’s strong suit.
Well, we don’t do it the way Dr. Kellogg first subscribed it. You’re supposed to do it as a punishment the first time you catch them in the act. It probably only stops them while they heal, but it will stop them.
You probably don’t want to know what he subscribed for girls in the same situation.
They only really stopped mutilating girls in the 1930’s, with holdouts doing it as last as the 40’s
You mean in the west, right? Because female genital mutilation is absolutely still a thing in parts of the world.
There are several possible reasons why other men might be upset, although your own equipment still works perfectly normally:
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Just like women’s sexual responses differ, men’s sexual responses may differ, as well. I’ve learned from a friend, who’s had many male partners, that some men get intense pleasure from manipulation of their foreskin. Some can even reach orgasm that way. I’ve learned from several (intact) men on Reddit and Lemmy that their primary source of sexual sensation is their foreskin, rather than their glans. Losing a major source of pleasure could be upsetting.
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This same friend also reports that, in his experience, intact men have better awareness of their own state of arousal, and better control of it. In brief, they can “last longer.” This is anecdotal, of course, but I seem to recall reading some research to back that up. That’s part of the reason why he’s upset by his being circumcised.
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“Circumcision” is not just one thing. It ranges from the traditional bris (a small snip at the tip of the penis, so that the tip of the glans just peeks out) to amputation of the entire mobile skin system of the penis (about 15 sq. in. of adult tissue gone). I would imagine that men who have drum-tight skin on their penises, and must use lube to facilitate penetration or masturbation, might not like it, whereas a man whose glans was still covered when his penis was flaccid might not notice much difference.
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The dorsal nerve of the penis can be severed during the procedure, removing sensation from the glans almost entirely, leading to erectile and performance issues, as well as greatly reduced enjoyment of sex.
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The healing of the circumcision wound can go not-quite-perfectly, leading to adhesions, assymetry, tight frenulums, phantom pain, and scarring. Journalist Gary Shteyngart wrote an essay about the odyssey of pain that he was thrown into when a skin bridge (an adhesion) on his penis became infected. Worse, I recall a letter published in Savage Love from a man whose circumcision scar was so thick and inelastic that it caused the end of his penis to go ischemic, then necrotic, and then fall off when he was an infant. He’s left with a stub of a penis, and a pretty good reason to be upset about circumcision, I’d say.
ETA: I did not think of this, but @theleadensea@sh.itjust.works pointed out that removal of the foreskin complicates bottom surgery for trans women, I would guess because it gives the surgeon less tissue to work with.
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Obviously most circumsised people have no issues with their dicks. And a lot probably sees it as a positive. I have heard a people claim that they look better.
Doing plastic surgery on babies is still a bit weird to me.
In my country, most men I know of feel satisfied with the form of their tools, just there is more emphasis on having the length and being potent on bed. Likewise, local anti-circumcision activists are also a very small minority.
But here in this largely Western-progressive dominated fora where individual rights and personal consent are paramount, male circumcision is met with very strong if not violent negative reaction.
Because sometimes there are scars. Sometimes they cut WAY too much and the skin left is too thin.
Nature designed that weiner, no need for cosmetic customization.
Its removing pieces of your child for no damned good reason. You’re not as ok as you think you are if the mere sight of a natural penis grosses you out.
Never said it grosses me out, just that I think my penis looks nicer than others. Thanks for forming my opinions and diagnosing my mental health for me though
So, if you’ve every had to clean out the inside of your son’s penis, you might feel a little bit differently. Circumcision was considered a standard hygienic practice for decades. There are some marginal benefits to health and safety, particularly wrt transmission of STDs. But given the modernizations in health and safety (particularly condoms and milder skin-friendly soap) it definitely feels archaic.
I’m circumcized. I don’t think it’s a big deal. My son isn’t (largely at the objections of my wife who was much more anti-circumcision than I am). So far, he hasn’t seemed to mind having a foreskin. It strikes me as something people just like to get mad at. It has no discernible impact either of our lives, except in the case where I’m giving him a bath.
Compared to, say, the consequences of laws around abortion or modern contraception or vaccination, this seems trivial to the point of being a deliberately engineered distraction.
So, if you’ve every had to clean out the inside of your son’s penis, you might feel a little bit differently. Circumcision was considered a standard hygienic practice for decades. There are some marginal benefits to health and safety, particularly wrt transmission of STDs. But given the modernizations in health and safety (particularly condoms and milder skin-friendly soap) it definitely feels archaic.
It feels archaic because this is archaic bullshit. it takes about a second to pull back the foreskin and wash it with the rest of the penis/pubic area during a normal bath the bathing a baby/toddler, and teaching a child this very normal habit is very simple and easy. The vast majority of human males on Earth handle this very normal task, and have done so for the entire existence of humanity.
Just because the misinformation you just repeated was pushed by the American medical establishment for a few decades doesn’t make it fact, and it has been widely repudiated by the medical establishments everywhere else, and even here in the US in recent decades.
It is no longer widely recommended, even in the US.
And your personal preference isn’t really medically relevant.
The vast majority of human males on Earth handle this very normal task, and have done so for the entire existence of humanity.
Go ask around the medical community and you’ll discover quite a few didn’t handle it well. Kids don’t do a good job of washing. That area is easily infected, even setting aside STDs. The procedure was created precisely in response to these perfectly normal human conditions, along with a litany of other - now largely archaic - practices for avoiding illness and infection.
It is no longer widely recommended, even in the US.
Even that fact varies state-by-state. It is no longer automatically covered by health insurance, which has resulted in a large drop-off in the practice domestically. But then that’s been the US standard for medicine going on 50 years.
And your personal preference isn’t really medically relevant.
It’s highly relevant, since parents are the ultimate arbiters of their childrens’ health and well-being.
Go ask around the medical community and you’ll discover quite a few didn’t handle it well. Kids don’t do a good job of washing.
I have, and this isn’t true. it’s also not supported by the medical documentation available. Instructing kids, especially when you start from an early age, to develop proper hygiene habits is pretty easy. I’ve even borne witness to it many times personally, although I’m not necessarily offering my personal experience as proof.
It’s highly relevant
not when you’re making claims about everyone everywhere. what matters there is evidence to back up your claims, which you have yet to provide.
so, since you were the one who initially made such claims… please back them up from reliable sources such as the AMA, for example.
I have, and this isn’t true.
I’ve got a friend who is a PA that has given me some very unpleasant stories about infected foreskins.
Instructing kids, especially when you start from an early age
Sure. People can do lots of things if they are instructed well at an early age. But then people aren’t instructed well. And that’s where you run into problems.
I’ve even borne witness to it many times personally
Fascinated to hear all the times you watched someone else wash their dick
not when you’re making claims about everyone everywhere
Yes. These are universal problems for the male population. And circumcision is one solution so popular and so common that it’s practiced the world over.
you were the one who initially made such claims
I assure you that I’m not the first person to suggest the benefits of circumcision.
OK kid come back when you have some actual evidence to back up your claims, lol
Your anecdotal claims amount to a pile of nothing but personal preference in Internet story time. And while you are perfectly welcome to your personal opinions, you are not entitled to spread claims of “truth“ without backing it up with actual evidence from trusted sources.
Your anecdotal claims amount to a pile of nothing.
Tell it to the guy with infected penis skin.
I think you are misinformed.
Published by Nature in 2023.
“What is the medical evidence on non-therapeutic child circumcision?”
We conclude that non-therapeutic circumcision performed on otherwise healthy infants or children has little or no high-quality medical evidence to support its overall benefit. Moreover, it is associated with rare but avoidable harm and even occasional deaths. From the perspective of the individual boy, there is no medical justification for performing a circumcision prior to an age that he can assess the known risks and potential benefits, and choose to give or withhold informed consent himself.
It’s highly relevant, since parents are the ultimate arbiters of their childrens’ health and well-being.
Precisely. Parents should protect their children from genital mutilation.
EDIT: also, parents are NOT the ultimate arbiters. Judges and social services are, and can and should remove children subject to genital mutilation.
And, unfortunately, for decades, particularly in the United States, parents were misled with medical misinformation that told them it was medically necessary (or “recommended”) to circumcise their babies. Thankfully, that is no longer the case. Unfortunately, it is still culturally reinforced, although that is fortunately fading.
But it will likely be several more decades before that misinformation and cultural force finally fades completely.
I’m uncircumcised and my son is uncircumcised. Really goes a long way on understanding how to deal with a normal uncircumcised penis. Cleaning it doesn’t take any extra effort.
Unfortunately for you the information on how to care for a normal uncircumcised penis on a younger child is not easily available because of the expectation that all American children are circumcised.
You are not supposed to retract the foreskin until later in life. When? Well it’s different for everyone but can be as late as age 10 or more. Until that time it’s “self-cleaning” just wash the outside. Tell the kid to keep trying to gently retract it when he pees or baths, if it doesn’t pull back easily it’s not ready.
You don’t need to get soap up in there until it starts retracting on it own, the skin begins to naturally separate. If you force it, you can cause scaring and damage, you’re literally ripping the skin from the glans. Once it retracts, pull the foreskin back wash the glans and ta dah… clean dick.
It’s made out to be this big inconvenience and believed by men with their foreskin removed. It’s not at all an inconvenience. You also don’t have any idea what your missing out on by having a circumcised penis.
Anyway thought I’d share before you mess up your kids dick. Lot of doctors I’ve talked to I had to correct on the proper way to take care of an uncircumcised child’s penis, it’s very unsettling and you might have got incorrect information yourself.
Lucky for me a have the proper equipment to know what I was talking about.
Doesn’t mind having a perfectly natural unmutilated body?!
I certainly mind having the body I got.
You are probably old enough to consent to changes and to take responsibility for your decisions for the rest of your own life.
I wasn’t when I was forced into this body.
Now you get it. Now go and find some therapy please.
Naturalistic fallacy aside, I missed that mark when I got corrective surgery for scoliosis. I’ve also got a few tattoos and piercings that any proper orthodox Jew would find abominable.
My son spent three months in the NICU and had I don’t even know how many medical interventions during that time. His “perfectly natural unmutilated body” would have been a 1.5oz corpse.
We’re both way past circumcision as the defining issue of our lives.
One is medical necessity and one is religious bullshit inflicting pain and assuming consent. Go do something productive with your life… Vote or something.
Its OK to move past the trauma, it’s not OK to assume everybody should go through that progression just because you did.
You just compared a normal.body part to a deformity
But the point is you wouldn’t tattoo your child before he is of age and without consulting him. This practice is not necessary
you wouldn’t tattoo your child before he is of age
I would not wait for my son to turn eighteen if he needed a medical alert tattoos to avoid an EMT accidentally killing him.
Maybe you would. That’s your call as a parent.
What the hell? Why are you suggesting I would let my child die if they needed medical treatment. You might have your own opinions about circumcision but lets keep discussion civil. I’m just saying that most circumcisions done right after birth aren’t done out of medical necessity and I would alter the body of my child because they wouldn’t be able to reverse it if they ever wanted to
here are some marginal benefits to health and safety, particularly wrt transmission of STDs.
Bullshit.
Yeah, I believe the STD myth has been debunked
You know we’re on the internet and you can just look stuff up instead of making it up.
It has no discernible impact either of our lives,
Then why would you chop it off?
Just for starters, you’re not “chopping” anything.
Past that, again, it’s for a marginal benefit in hygiene.
You should probably cut your earlobes off too then, you don’t really need them and it’s possible they could get infected at some point in your life. And I’m sure you shave your and your children bald regularly, right? You don’t need hair and it removes the possibility of lice which can carry blood-born diseases.
I think you’ve got a very weak argument for it. It seems sensible to me that elective procedures should have clear benefits to outweigh the corresponding risks of performing it; there are always risks with performing medical procedures.
And w.r.t. you comment on no chopping — it’s a piece of skin that is attached to a human body, it doesn’t just fall off by itself. You do have to cut it. Choppy choppy.
you aren’t supposed to use soap on genitals
Do you know why UK men are rarely circumcized when it’s the norm in the U.S?
At some point the UK government decided that circumcision wouldn’t be covered by the national health insurance.
And just like that. It went out of fashion.
I’m sure the greedy U.S insurance companies would be more than happy to stop covering that service.
Fight fire with fire.
Get the insurance companies to stop covering it. And we can finally save boys from being mutilated.
It would still be profitable. They sell the foreskins for use in cosmetic products.
A kid died in Australia because a doctor botched the circumcision of a toddler and he went septic.
Barbaric cultural practise to do it to children, but I do think it’s fine if they medically need it or you are an adult and want it done.
Yeah adults can decide and of course it treats conditions like phimosis which is when the foreskin is super tight.
Not just UK most of the world is uncircumcised, it’s only a thing in Abrahamic religions and USA
it’s only a thing in Abrahamic religions
Christianity is an abrahamic religion and afaik does not have anything to with this anywhere except the US.
I was mostly referring to Islam and Judaism but it’s weird how regressive Christianity is in the US compared to most other developed countries
Yeah cause mutilating baby genitals is bad. Most people get that.
But also my example was to illustrate how the trend was changed in the UK and perhaps it’s a possible way to do the same in the U.S.
People is the US are just brain dead “christian” morons
It may have started that way, but nowadays it’s normalized to the point where it’s something most people just automatically do. Any harm to the person undergoing this is waved away and rationalized as “it will hurt for just a second and they won’t remember it anyway”.
After my brother-in-law had his boy, he proudly announced they were taking him to be circumcized. Taken aback, I asked him why - he’s one of the most non-religious people I’ve ever known. I was just met by an empty stare, as if I were the weird one for asking. Sadly, at this point it might be more popular than the essential vaccines which are supposed to be administered at birth.
People is the US are just brain dead
“christian”moronsOk, ftfy
yeah that’s not entirely wrong sadly
I don’t think Christianity requires circumcising
They do it anyways for sexual control
Nothing requires circumcising
Ouuuu hot take. Never said anything did, but your Christian reference implies that Christianity does.
Watch 'em start trying to do it at home.
Well unlike making abortion illegal, making it so that insurance won’t cover it just means you would have to pay for it.
And I’m sure some still will.
But I can’t see too many people trying to do it at home.
amab genital mutilation makes bottom surgery more complicated for transfems
yes it’s also immoral and shouldn’t be done on infants of any gender who can’t give consent (and should be illegal, as should intersex genital mutilation, aka “surgical correction”)
Yeah, though American bottom surgeons are so used to it they see the foreskin as making it easier rather than the lack of it making it more difficult. At least that’s how it was for my surgeon
Huh, didn’t even occur to me there would be trans complications as well.
Its like 10 in² removed by circumcision. Not necessarily length or girth from your dick. But 10 in² of incredibly sensitive skin on your sex organ.
New imperial unit for area dropped.
The squinch
I can’t speak for everyone but I am an average sized uncut USian, and mine foreskin is pretty tight when erect to the point I think it might be painful if I was cut. I wonder if there’s anyone who got circumcised post puberty that can chime in.
Look up phimosis. It’s pretty common from my understanding but I had to get circumcised a few years back from it. Starts with a bit of tearing around the opening of the foreskin which will eventually turn into scar tissue. Then things start getting painful. You can make cranking your hog not painful, but sex and even just full erections were painful.
I do miss my little hooded member, sex doesnt feel the same way as it used to, and I don’t last as long in bed but hey… no more pain and split foreskins these days!
It’s actually decently common. Sorry you had to do it though.
I remember the scrubs episode. Sorry you gotta go through that.
Yes. Cut male here. For the first five or so years of my sexually active time, when I would get a particularly vigorous erection the skin below my glans would literally tear in random places around the circumference. It was quite painful but has thankfully stopped now and Im left with just some scars.
When my son was born I refused to let him out of my sight until every staff member was able to assure me he would not be circumcised.
Parents: do NOT circumcise your children, it’s barbaric.
I’m a grower and pretty big. When I got to puberty basically every erection was painful. It took a couple years for the skin to stretch so it didn’t hurt. If I ever have a child in this fucked up world I will kill someone before I let them mutilate my child the way I was.
What do you call a discount circumcision?
A ripoff.
Shit
(Did I follow the instructions in the title correctly?)
No one said post it after typing…
Nah you capitalized it
shit
What do they want, a refund?
At the very least they’d like their tip back.
To stop the cultural practice of male genital mutilation and break the norms that doom their sons?
Full respect if you were speaking sarcastically
Oh 100% sarcastic.
I agree genital mutilation that is not medically necessary is bad. They just could have made the point/their aim clearer.
They just could have made the point/their aim clearer.
I appreciate the attempt to still make a pun, even after getting a bit of a smack
I honestly wasn’t trying to be punny, that’s just how it came out. But I’ll take it.
With interest.
Gimme that fiveskin.
Could’ve at least saved it for a little foreskin calamari is all.
Foreskins are sold for use in beauty treatments and skin grafts for burns, would be nice to get the cash value back just on the principle of it even if it wasn’t that much.
Half off
